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What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set?

06-03-2021 , 06:05 PM
Or between a list and a set containing one element?
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-03-2021 , 06:19 PM
Nothing. You're setting aside some memory in the RAM to store a variable, that is physical, unless its in a VM, which stills resides somewhere physically.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-04-2021 , 05:21 PM
They are spelled differently
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-04-2021 , 06:52 PM
philosophical
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-04-2021 , 06:58 PM
“They are spelled differently”

This answer would very difficult to improve on.

Last edited by Zeno; 06-04-2021 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Spelling
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-04-2021 , 07:04 PM
Drinking an empty list of beers from an empty set of glasses would prove difficult. Not to an Irishman but to everyone else.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-05-2021 , 08:50 AM
There is a difference. The empty list is the empty set with the empty order, i.e. it is a pair ({ }, { }) of empty sets.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-05-2021 , 01:50 PM
Drivel. This type of thing is common among mathematicians; posing questions, sloppily made, with hidden definitions all later to be employed like a conjuring trick in a circus show.

What’s the difference between a pair and a pear? They are a pair of empty sets.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-05-2021 , 01:54 PM
And speaking of empty orders; how many empty lists are there in an empty set. And are they ordered?! Meaning is there a one to one corresponding relationship?!
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-05-2021 , 02:03 PM
The answer didn't occur to me when making the thread. No tricks, and no games.

Now I'm wondering what's the difference between the empty list and e.g. the empty graph or the empty topological space, as they too are pairs of empty sets.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-05-2021 , 02:13 PM
Stop being so civil! It’s very annoying, especially coming from an Englishman.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-05-2021 , 02:16 PM
They're different stuctures. The fact they are different manifests in an obvious way when you add elements to them but it's a real difference even before you do.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-05-2021 , 02:18 PM
Actually, I think the empty topological space is ({ }, {{ }}), so scrap that as an example.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-05-2021 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno
Stop being so civil!
Incivility while a Test Match at Lord's is in progress? Have you gone mad?
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-05-2021 , 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie
There is a difference. The empty list is the empty set with the empty order, i.e. it is a pair ({ }, { }) of empty sets.
An empty byte is empty information. An empty byte or bytes of memory is/are set aside when a variable is declared. Likewise a one element variable of whatever type is still a single variable, that may or may not relate with some other variables purely in terms of whether they are equal in numeric value.

There is no reason to reach for the abstract with your question.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-05-2021 , 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie
The answer didn't occur to me when making the thread. No tricks, and no games.

Now I'm wondering what's the difference between the empty list and e.g. the empty graph or the empty topological space, as they too are pairs of empty sets.

Information. Shannon and nyquist worked it out.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-06-2021 , 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOneDouble
An empty byte is empty information. An empty byte or bytes of memory is/are set aside when a variable is declared.
I would welcome the question being made more concrete and computational, but I don't understand even the basics of what you're saying. I don't see why variables have to be introduced at all, and does not the concept of a set precede that of a variable, as in:

Quote:
In mathematics, a variable is a symbol which works as a placeholder for expression or quantities that may vary or change; is often used to represent the argument of a function or an arbitrary element of a set.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_(mathematics)

You seem to be saying the set {} and the list () are indistinguishable computationally. Is that correct? Please address any answer to a dummy who barely understands what a bit is.

I mean to be interpreted as a meaningless symbol rather than a variable.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-06-2021 , 04:41 AM
Just use pointers like real men!
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-24-2021 , 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie
I would welcome the question being made more concrete and computational, but I don't understand even the basics of what you're saying. I don't see why variables have to be introduced at all, and does not the concept of a set precede that of a variable, as in:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_(mathematics)

You seem to be saying the set {} and the list () are indistinguishable computationally. Is that correct? Please address any answer to a dummy who barely understands what a bit is.

I mean to be interpreted as a meaningless symbol rather than a variable.
I see lists and sets as variables because that is what they are. There will be differences in computations needed as you understand there is a difference between a list and set.
But it ends going back to the link below. Assembly is converted to machine code. A higher level language is converted often to assembly and then to machine code.

If you can program in assembly you could if you wanted interpret or read machine code. Which is a file of bytes displayed in hexadecimal for convenience made up if CPU ibstructions stored in ROM and data that is defined to vary stored in RAM. Likewise you can understand the cpu architecture if you learn assembly. likewise you can envision how a higher level language can be converted to assembly and machine code. You can understand how pointers work. In any case, No matter how abstract, the CPU runs on machine code. The same output can be achieved no matter the configutation of the bytes that make up thus machine code, just in the same way a computer program can be written ten different ways by ten different people that all perform the same function. Same logic achieved by different computations if you will. To avoid rambling furthur, There is a finite set of instructions that a CPU can perform dictated by its instruction set.

An interesting analogy if not a sidenote is that older CPUs such as a 6502 did not have a multiply or divide instruction. They were achieved by repeated addition and repeated subtraction respectively. Then you realise that CPUs that offered the luxury of having a multiply or divide instruction still did so by adding or subtracting repeatedly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_code

Last edited by MacOneDouble; 06-24-2021 at 05:47 AM.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-24-2021 , 08:57 AM
Did you mention a place with a line of people around the block waiting to order as a failure?

The real reason there are not more places like that is because they are family owned and run. "Yes, I would like to do the same work as my family and be duty bound to be with them 70 more hours a week than would otherwise be necessary," is something only weird people would say.

Edit:. This is the wrong thread
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-24-2021 , 09:03 AM
On the other hand, it does demonstrate that I distinguish between you and other folk as an individual, so it is nice in a way.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-24-2021 , 08:44 PM
Wrong thread?! I suspect BrianTheMick is living on the wrong planet.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-24-2021 , 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOneDouble
I see lists and sets as variables because that is what they are. There will be differences in computations needed as you understand there is a difference between a list and set.
I dont think that's correct. Data structures are abstract and variables can be of type data structure.

How it's implemented in hardware is an important practical consideration but it's nothing to do with data structures at a conceptual level.

The difference between a list and a set is that a list is ordered and can have the same members multiple times. The difference when both are empty is like arguing the difference between integers and reals when both are zero.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-25-2021 , 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
I dont think that's correct. Data structures are abstract and variables can be of type data structure.

How it's implemented in hardware is an important practical consideration but it's nothing to do with data structures at a conceptual level.

The difference between a list and a set is that a list is ordered and can have the same members multiple times. The difference when both are empty is like arguing the difference between integers and reals when both are zero.
Yes i agree. However, the question was - what is the difference between an empty list and empty set. Empty is empty. A variable of type char only needs to set aside in memory a byte. Variables of other types require more bytes, void of information unless declared.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote
06-25-2021 , 03:45 AM
Zero as a real is a limit of numbers not equal to it; zero as an integer is not.
What's the difference between the empty list and the empty set? Quote

      
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