Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Science, Math, and Philosophy Discussions regarding science, math, and/or philosophy.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2016, 03:07 PM   #9351
BrianTheMick2
Need a ride?
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15,116
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by aflametotheground View Post
So x=0/0 is strong enough defined so we know that it can only be something from the set of all numbers, we know its not gonna be a "duck" or something totally random. But x is too weak defined for us to be more specific than the set of all numbers.
No. It is undefined. That is why they say things like "0/0 is undefined."
BrianTheMick2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 04:09 PM   #9352
aflametotheground
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,512
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Im not convinced or anything buddy, im throwing out some ideas. Take a deep breath. How about the following (which i am open for being wrong):

Division is the operation that yields c from combining a and b ( a/b =c ) such that c*b = a.

So that means if a and b = 0, then every c is a solution, e.g 3*0=0.

An example where division is not defined is when you look at the integers but remove e.g 3, then division is not defined for 12/4 since there is no c.
aflametotheground is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 04:18 PM   #9353
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 28,577
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by aflametotheground View Post
Division is the operation that yields c from combining a and b ( a/b =c ) such that c*b = a.

So that means if a and b = 0, then every c is a solution, e.g 3*0=0.
When you call "division" and "operation" what are the conditions that you are using to apply to the word "operation." That is, what exactly do you view an operation to be?

The standard definition is that division is a binary operation that takes two real number inputs (where the second real number is not allowed to be zero) and outputs a single real number. (Technically, division is a function from RxR* to R.)

So you can say that every c is a solution to the equation you wrote down, but that doesn't help division be an operation.
Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 05:41 PM   #9354
aflametotheground
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,512
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Okay, so thats the gold standard operator for division you are talking about. And it would have to be modified to allow for 0 in the denominator and it would have to allow output that are both in the form of single elements on R as well as sets on R (since the solution to 0/0 is all the numbers). If i am wording myself correct here.

I guess this is not trivial at all, if you start fooling around with things like that you might affect or influence other parts of math, and maybe start allowing for magic to happen in random equations etc.
aflametotheground is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 06:09 PM   #9355
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 28,577
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by aflametotheground View Post
Okay, so thats the gold standard operator for division you are talking about. And it would have to be modified to allow for 0 in the denominator and it would have to allow output that are both in the form of single elements on R as well as sets on R (since the solution to 0/0 is all the numbers). If i am wording myself correct here.
Right. You would have to change the output from being real numbers to something like being the real numbers plus some sets, or something like that.

Quote:
I guess this is not trivial at all, if you start fooling around with things like that you might affect or influence other parts of math, and maybe start allowing for magic to happen in random equations etc.
Math has enough weird magic formulas without needing other magic formulas.

Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 07:43 PM   #9356
Zeno
Le Misanthrope
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 15,689
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

The really, really mysterious thing about Mathematicians is that they never riot. Why is that? I would love to be on a campus and hear people shouting and running and exclaiming: The Mathematicians are rioting, they are burning down the physics building and have the University President in chains and are demanding that the number e be declared the Universal arbitrator of all disputes; scientific and political. In addition they are demanding that a chapel be built on campus for the worship of Leonhard Euler. But no, they have to be some sedate boring and monkish group of dunderheads that play fool games with numbers. Wake up and start making some noise you wimps.
Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 08:15 PM   #9357
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: QED, I think
Posts: 7,814
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Monkish is a good word for it, IMO.

Although I've seen teacups set down in anger over the axiom of choice, I'll have you know.
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 08:46 PM   #9358
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 28,577
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
The really, really mysterious thing about Mathematicians is that they never riot. Why is that? I would love to be on a campus and hear people shouting and running and exclaiming: The Mathematicians are rioting, they are burning down the physics building and have the University President in chains and are demanding that the number e be declared the Universal arbitrator of all disputes; scientific and political. In addition they are demanding that a chapel be built on campus for the worship of Leonhard Euler. But no, they have to be some sedate boring and monkish group of dunderheads that play fool games with numbers. Wake up and start making some noise you wimps.
You would have had a great time during the days of the ancient Greeks. Back then, the Pythagoreans were murderers and thugs, killing in the name of what is true and definitely not eating beans. (Or so you might led to believe if you read the accounts of Hippasus.) And let's not forget Archimedes running down the street naked (though that was really for solving a physics problem, so it might not count).

Those were fun times... I think.
Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 08:49 PM   #9359
aflametotheground
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,512
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

i have seen that vid actually, weird stuff.
aflametotheground is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2016, 12:30 AM   #9360
FoldnDark
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
FoldnDark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St. Louie
Posts: 11,939
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

I prefer 0v0 because it kinda looks like an owl.
FoldnDark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2016, 03:27 AM   #9361
FoldnDark
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
FoldnDark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St. Louie
Posts: 11,939
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Has anyone done the math to figure out if the reduction in crime we've seen in the US over the past 20-30 years can be solely explained by an aging population? Fewer young punks = lower crime rate. You heard it here first, wheres my check?
FoldnDark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2016, 06:08 AM   #9362
lastcardcharlie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lastcardcharlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: QED, I think
Posts: 7,814
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

There's a complimentary bottle of Victory gin on its way, Foldn.
lastcardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2016, 06:23 AM   #9363
ToothSayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ToothSayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: BFI Thought Leader
Posts: 6,498
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldnDark View Post
Has anyone done the math to figure out if the reduction in crime we've seen in the US over the past 20-30 years can be solely explained by an aging population? Fewer young punks = lower crime rate. You heard it here first, wheres my check?
My theory is television. Give the idiots something to distract them and they're not out raping and stealing as much.
ToothSayer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2016, 09:57 AM   #9364
Bob148
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bob148's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: takin it to the streets
Posts: 9,602
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Wow you guys are smart. Thanks for the discussion. Cheers.
Bob148 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2016, 10:55 AM   #9365
Howard Treesong
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Howard Treesong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In for the long con!
Posts: 10,327
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
The really, really mysterious thing about Mathematicians is that they never riot. Why is that? I would love to be on a campus and hear people shouting and running and exclaiming: The Mathematicians are rioting, they are burning down the physics building and have the University President in chains and are demanding that the number e be declared the Universal arbitrator of all disputes; scientific and political. In addition they are demanding that a chapel be built on campus for the worship of Leonhard Euler. But no, they have to be some sedate boring and monkish group of dunderheads that play fool games with numbers. Wake up and start making some noise you wimps.

Right on! Fight the exponent!

Mathematicians need to emulate Wittgenstein and Popper.
Howard Treesong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2016, 03:40 PM   #9366
Zeno
Le Misanthrope
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 15,689
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldnDark View Post
Has anyone done the math to figure out if the reduction in crime we've seen in the US over the past 20-30 years can be solely explained by an aging population? Fewer young punks = lower crime rate. You heard it here first, wheres my check?
Conclusions first! - then the research and statistics necessary to prove it. Hanging out in the politics forums has really started to soften your already mushy brain Foldn.

I'm sure some save the world foundation will give lots of money to prove what they already know is true. Just do the leg work at finding them and fill out the forms and send it in. Money in the bank.
Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2016, 03:43 PM   #9367
Zeno
Le Misanthrope
 
Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Spitsbergen
Posts: 15,689
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie View Post
Monkish is a good word for it, IMO.

Although I've seen teacups set down in anger over the axiom of choice, I'll have you know.
I hope the teacups and saucers survived such violent treatment.
Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2016, 04:12 PM   #9368
FoldnDark
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
FoldnDark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St. Louie
Posts: 11,939
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
Conclusions first! - then the research and statistics necessary to prove it. Hanging out in the politics forums has really started to soften your already mushy brain Foldn.

I'm sure some save the world foundation will give lots of money to prove what they already know is true. Just do the leg work at finding them and fill out the forms and send it in. Money in the bank.
This is what I'm banking on. But I don't do leg work. I'll sell you the idea for a fair price.
FoldnDark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2016, 11:29 PM   #9369
spanktehbadwookie
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
spanktehbadwookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: River Region
Posts: 18,333
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

a reason people can learn better than to riot is the fact that authority punishes rioting and violence and can make authoritative statements with backing of claim with such. So learning to non violently participate takes away an opportunity for authority to exploit with appeals to punishment. Moves the appeal to non-violent people, and if authority uses violence it is not the same appeal as these people rioted.

Sets the stage to call for principles of self defense. Assuming a nonviolent person can defend themselves with force or violence and authority uses violence and punishes violence, that principle cannot be applied without being a punishing ethic. There is no rule that ethics must be punishing. So nonviolence becomes the only choice. Avoid giving authority opportunity to punish, and when they do- have a firm appeal that it is unjust. Unjust authority ripe to be outdated. Exposed even.
spanktehbadwookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 08:01 PM   #9370
chezlaw
Limey Bastard
 
chezlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 33,697
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Maths riot - I wanna riot
Maths riot - a riot of my own
Maths riot - I wanna riot
Maths riot - a riot of my own

Philosophers gotta lot a problems
But they don't mind throwing a brick
Maths people go to school
Where they teach you how to do trig

An' everybody's doing
Just what they're told to
An' nobody wants
To go to jail!

Maths riot - I wanna riot
Maths riot - a riot of my own
Maths riot - I wanna riot
Maths riot - a riot of my own
chezlaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 12:46 AM   #9371
BrianTheMick2
Need a ride?
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15,116
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by aflametotheground View Post
Im not convinced or anything buddy, im throwing out some ideas. Take a deep breath. How about the following (which i am open for being wrong):

Division is the operation that yields c from combining a and b ( a/b =c ) such that c*b = a.

So that means if a and b = 0, then every c is a solution, e.g 3*0=0.

An example where division is not defined is when you look at the integers but remove e.g 3, then division is not defined for 12/4 since there is no c.
3 is defined. You gave an example (3 is undefined) that isn't in any number theory, which is an odd thing to do when we are discussing number theory.
BrianTheMick2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 12:49 AM   #9372
BrianTheMick2
Need a ride?
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15,116
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldnDark View Post
Has anyone done the math to figure out if the reduction in crime we've seen in the US over the past 20-30 years can be solely explained by an aging population? Fewer young punks = lower crime rate. You heard it here first, wheres my check?
Unleaded gasoline and no lead in paint anymore. Fits the data amazingly well.

Also, young men are dumb as ****, so you are also correct.
BrianTheMick2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 12:52 AM   #9373
BrianTheMick2
Need a ride?
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15,116
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
Maths riot - I wanna riot
Maths riot - a riot of my own
Maths riot - I wanna riot
Maths riot - a riot of my own

Philosophers gotta lot a problems
But they don't mind throwing a brick
Maths people go to school
Where they teach you how to do trig

An' everybody's doing
Just what they're told to
An' nobody wants
To go to jail!

Maths riot - I wanna riot
Maths riot - a riot of my own
Maths riot - I wanna riot
Maths riot - a riot of my own
I can't decide whether that was horrible or horrible.
BrianTheMick2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 09:26 AM   #9374
networth
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: sochi
Posts: 2,198
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldnDark View Post
Has anyone done the math to figure out if the reduction in crime we've seen in the US over the past 20-30 years can be solely explained by an aging population? Fewer young punks = lower crime rate. You heard it here first, wheres my check?
Thought that was Gladwell's first book. Availability of easy, effective birth control the punchline.
networth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 10:17 AM   #9375
aflametotheground
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,512
Re: SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2 View Post
3 is defined. You gave an example (3 is undefined) that isn't in any number theory, which is an odd thing to do when we are discussing number theory.
please go bother someone else (its called set theory).
aflametotheground is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online