SMP Life is Being Drunk -Random Content thread - Page 25

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04-19-2011 , 02:39 PM

#601

lastcardcharlie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,435

This is linked in the OOT grammar thread somewhere:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht2ZAxMqlIk

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04-19-2011 , 03:26 PM

#602

All-In Flynn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10,923

Well, Stephen Fry's good enough for me. Cheers.

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04-19-2011 , 04:05 PM

#603

wisski

mister fancy lad exceeded expectations achievement boy

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,479

doesn't none = not any? I get what you're trying to say, but really none is a plural negative imo.

because when using it you exclude all subjects... so I'd have to disagree

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04-19-2011 , 04:30 PM

#604

All-In Flynn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10,923

Did some googling - it's complicated. Long story short 'none is' is correct in many cases where 'none are' ends up being used, but 'none' is not universally singular, at least in usage. One example offered is the '... and then there were none' ending of (I think) Nine Little Indians. I'm not sure that's even right, but it sounds better than '... and then there was none' - that would work for an amount of a substance, but not for an amount of individual units.

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04-19-2011 , 05:30 PM

#605

madnak

Cooler than Sammy Hagar

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 19,742

Clearly either is fine, unless we're talking about something like "none of the cake was left."

If you say "none of the cake were left" you're a ******.

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04-19-2011 , 07:01 PM

#606

jb9

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,147

But it is cool if you say "if none of the cake were left"...

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04-19-2011 , 07:21 PM

#607

madnak

Cooler than Sammy Hagar

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 19,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb9

But it is cool if you say "if none of the cake were left"...

Also "if not one elephant were left..."

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04-19-2011 , 07:43 PM

#608

All-In Flynn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10,923

"If I weren't such a nit..."

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04-19-2011 , 07:49 PM

#609

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,849

if not one grammatical error were left ...

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04-19-2011 , 07:50 PM

#610

All-In Flynn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10,923

...they'd all be right.

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04-21-2011 , 05:55 PM

#611

derada4

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,544

On the whole grammar discussion:

The word we should be looking at isn't "none," it's "them".

Think about it: "None" of what? "Them" = are.
"The cake" = is.

"The cake," "Them," etc is the noun that the verb is modifying, so what "none" means doesn't really matter in this case.

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04-21-2011 , 06:26 PM

#612

madnak

Cooler than Sammy Hagar

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 19,742

The moving company is going to handle that on Monday.

"Not one of them is" sounds fine to me.

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04-21-2011 , 07:27 PM

#613

derada4

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,544

Yeah I realized I completed f'ed that one up, wasn't drunk but might as well have been.

I think the problem with the original post was the assumption that "none" = "not one", when "none" really means something more like "not any." Since "none of the cake was left" doesn't mean "not one of the cake was left," but again, something more like (but not exactly) "not any of the cake was left" But I see that this was all pointed out already

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04-21-2011 , 08:12 PM

#614

All-In Flynn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10,923

Quote:

Originally Posted by derada4

I think the problem with the original post was the assumption that "none" = "not one", when "none" really means something more like "not any." Since "none of the cake was left" doesn't mean "not one of the cake was left," but again, something more like (but not exactly) "not any of the cake was left" But I see that this was all pointed out already

I assumed it exclusively meant 'not one', but apparently it means both. Live and learn. 'Not any of them' is an ugly construction I'd never use, though. Much of my grammar sense is aesthetic, it seems.

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04-21-2011 , 08:43 PM

#615

derada4

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,544

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-In Flynn

I assumed it exclusively meant 'not one', but apparently it means both. Live and learn. 'Not any of them' is an ugly construction I'd never use, though. Much of my grammar sense is aesthetic, it seems.

Pretty much the same for me. I have an English degree, and read and write a ton, but know almost nothing about formal grammar. Most of the time if you just think logically about it, as was done ITT, you can figure it out. I come from a heavy musical background and know that some of the best musicians know nothing about music theory and feel that the same applies for writing/grammar.

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04-22-2011 , 07:30 AM

#616

madnak

Cooler than Sammy Hagar

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 19,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-In Flynn

I assumed it exclusively meant 'not one', but apparently it means both. Live and learn. 'Not any of them' is an ugly construction I'd never use, though.

It's a good thing you've got "none of them" to use instead.

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04-22-2011 , 12:39 PM

#617

wisski

mister fancy lad exceeded expectations achievement boy

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,479

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD-TEK

zeno, please disregard my last post. have a good day!

you're not as thumb as you dink you are.

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04-22-2011 , 11:25 PM

#618

BadAtMeth

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 669

Is Zeno replying to you and then deleting his posts, or ...?

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04-23-2011 , 02:10 AM

#619

Redtuber

adept

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 955

Grew up with a Jewish father, then went to live with divorced Catholic mother. Did time at a 4 year Jesuit high school for 4 years while progessing my alcoholism, then transitioning into a 10+ year stint in AA heavily influenced to find a higher power or accept an ugly death. Choosing ugly death.

Redtuber 4, God 0.

Last edited by Redtuber; 04-23-2011 at 02:32 AM.

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04-23-2011 , 08:38 AM

#620

Splendour

banned

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 18,896

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redtuber

I think God did a mysterious work for you anyway.

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04-23-2011 , 09:16 PM

#621

lastcardcharlie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,435

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redtuber

One side of my family (the Catholic side) are alcoholics. I'm not and I don't fully understand why. It's something I'm curious about.

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04-24-2011 , 01:32 AM

#622

Redtuber

adept

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 955

Quote:

Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie

One side of my family (the Catholic side) are alcoholics. I'm not and I don't fully understand why. It's something I'm curious about.

It skipped a generation. Your kids will be alcoholics.

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04-24-2011 , 03:30 AM

#623

Redtuber

adept

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 955

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendour

I think God did a mysterious work for you anyway.

I know we keep telling ourselves these things happen because of fate, miracles, and a force higher than ourselves. So if the higher power is true but why does it have it to be spiritual in nature? The most common example is the right people being put in your life at the right time and this was out of our own control. To some degree yes, but weren't we the ones that set these initial actions in motion to end up in that place where "god put us". If we really believe God controlled our opportunities, then we are all just puppets, right?

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04-24-2011 , 04:26 AM

#624

lastcardcharlie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,435

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redtuber

It skipped a generation. Your kids will be alcoholics.

I like this a lot. Except that my brother is. In one of our rare moments of communication he described it as having "a terrible thirst".

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04-24-2011 , 04:37 AM

#625

Redtuber

adept

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 955

Quote:

Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie

I like this a lot. Except that my brother is. In one of our rare moments of communication he described it as having "a terrible thirst".

It is like roulette. I have two brothers that didn't get it, but I did. So they have the found the gene that they can trace this behavour passed down. It lays dormant in some and runs rampant in others, quite mind boggling. If it's dormant in you, you still have the capacity to pass it down.

More interesting is, if you pair up with someone from a non-alcoholic bloodline, how much, if any, difference will it make?

Last edited by Redtuber; 04-24-2011 at 04:54 AM.

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