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Reality does not exist Reality does not exist

06-13-2021 , 08:39 AM
Came across Prof. Donald Hoffman's work and am really intrigued.

Worth watching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd6CQCbk2ro&t=4853s

More video interviews available and a ted talk.

Tldr: consciousness not physical reality is the starting point for all theory (I like this return to cartesian doubt in a sense). Spacetime is really just a function of consciousness; evolution has bred us to survive but not see reality as it is; we really cannot see reality as it is (Kant already saw this 200 years ago).

Could all phyisics be inverted...?
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06-13-2021 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
we really cannot see reality as it is
What the...?

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-spacetime/
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06-13-2021 , 04:35 PM
It Does Not Matter; I can still enjoy drinking beer, watching porn, and Jerking off.

And Kant wasted his life writing reams of hoopla that no reasonable person would take the time to read. Worse still, Kant thought it was serious stuff*. What a ridiculous life he lead. Serves this German right.


*And many boneheaded people in academia and philosophers think the same.
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06-13-2021 , 05:12 PM
Read his book, which I've already posted in the LC thread:



You've left out his best: The 'conscious agent thesis' which posits that reality consists of a network of conscious agents. He readily admits that he'd be laughed out of the room if he didn't have a mathematical formalism for this but he does.

It's about as New Age as one can get w/o being laughed out of the room.
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06-13-2021 , 06:01 PM
whatever exists is reality
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06-13-2021 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
Came across Prof. Donald Hoffman's work and am really intrigued.

Worth watching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd6CQCbk2ro&t=4853s

More video interviews available and a ted talk.

Tldr: consciousness not physical reality is the starting point for all theory (I like this return to cartesian doubt in a sense). Spacetime is really just a function of consciousness; evolution has bred us to survive but not see reality as it is; we really cannot see reality as it is (Kant already saw this 200 years ago).

Could all phyisics be inverted...?
long as your good people you should believe whatever you want. however getting validation from others regarding untestable hypotheses is going to be difficult.
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06-14-2021 , 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie
Not sure if you posted that as an argument, but it affirms my post, so...
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06-14-2021 , 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Beale
Read his book, which I've already posted in the LC thread:



You've left out his best: The 'conscious agent thesis' which posits that reality consists of a network of conscious agents. He readily admits that he'd be laughed out of the room if he didn't have a mathematical formalism for this but he does.

It's about as New Age as one can get w/o being laughed out of the room.

I havent looked at the math nor probably will I. Theoretically this actually makes the most sense intuitively to me, or I just like thinking about it.

The idea that consciousness is really the last frontier seems right to me... it has more depth of possibility even than space as far as "reality" is concerned... to me
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06-14-2021 , 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno
It Does Not Matter; I can still enjoy drinking beer, watching porn, and Jerking off.

And Kant wasted his life writing reams of hoopla that no reasonable person would take the time to read. Worse still, Kant thought it was serious stuff*. What a ridiculous life he lead. Serves this German right.


*And many boneheaded people in academia and philosophers think the same.


Kant was a genius whose life I would never wish to emulate
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06-14-2021 , 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
whatever exists is reality
Nicely put! I owe you another brew. Add it to my tab. Someday you may actually be able to collect. But don’t hold your breath.
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06-14-2021 , 02:16 AM
I find nothing burgers rather bland but whatever burgers quite tasty.


PairTheBoard
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06-14-2021 , 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno
Nicely put! I owe you another brew. Add it to my tab. Someday you may actually be able to collect. But don’t hold your breath.
Actually that's a pretty hollow statement as we do not know what exists and what doesn't, or rather we don't perceive it as it necessarily "is"
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06-14-2021 , 05:03 AM
Reality dont care about what we know about it or how we perceive it.

or more musically
Quote:
You call it loud
But the human crowd
Doesn't mean **** to a tree
or more funny
Quote:
Whole Sort Of General Mish Mash (WSOGMM)
The technical term for the sum total of all the parallel universes, which aren't parallel, and furthermore are not, strictly speaking, universes either. This is easiest if you don't try to realize that until a little later, after you've realized that everything you've realized up to that moment is not true. The reason they are not universes is that any given universe is not a thing as such, but rather just a way of looking at the WSOGMM. The reason they are not parallel is the same reason the sea is not parallel. You can slice the WSOGMM any way you like and you will generally come up with something that someone will call home. Please feel free to blither now.
In the end there is only beer. And whisky. Only beer and whisky. And champagne. The only three things are beer whisky and champage. And diet coke ...
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06-14-2021 , 05:19 AM
Reality isnt what you/we think. Its original conception requires geometry. Something that never "existed". Degeometrization theory will explain it all through in fact geometrization, the process through which an emergent effective structure of assumed continued geometry appears to produce what we observe as the playground everything happens in a limit conveniently appropriate for our senses. QM is not a strange theory. The only strange is the way we insist on seeing it through a model of the world that is not fundamental enough.

By the way consciousness is not fundamental. It is macroscopically emergent in high complexity systems when they become able to play the game well enough to anticipate what comes next.

Last edited by masque de Z; 06-14-2021 at 05:24 AM.
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06-14-2021 , 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
Actually that's a pretty hollow statement as we do not know what exists and what doesn't, or rather we don't perceive it as it necessarily "is"
We?!? You don't exist, certainly not as a conscious agent.
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06-14-2021 , 01:06 PM
I hear that there are some special mushrooms that can help solve this.
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06-14-2021 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker

Could all phyisics be inverted...?
Sure.

Conventionally we think of a bright, shiny ball of light called a photon being emitted by the sun, bouncing off the moon and impacting our retinas allowing us to 'see' the world out there. In other words, the room full of stuff is already out there, we just need to flip the 'light' switch to 'see' it. An alternative way of looking at that would be that the photon impacting the retina causes a light to appear on an inherent mental screen, similar to how an electrical signal fires a pixel on a digital screen, with many of which producing the shape of the moon or the sun on our mental screens. So there is no light-ness or bright-ness out there sans a mind to perceive it, shapes to be perceived nor noise as in the case of a tree falling. We could just as well cross the wires and see sounds on our mental screen the way we see them on an oscilloscope and hear sights as we do with radar. So looking at things in that manner explains away a lot of the enigmas that occur with modern physics when viewed through a materialist lens. E.g., what we're actually seeing with the double-slit experiment is the construction and finite limitations of our mental screen, not underlying reality. Same with the relativity enigmas: they're essentially the same as seeing tracers and blurring if we turn our head quickly in relation to a computer screen. But all that is merely an inversion of perceptions, not the underlying realty.

To invert our view of reality we need to invert our conception of space as masque de Z alluded to with degeometrization theory. For example, imagine being blindfolded and grabbing a basketball. According to immaterialism, what happens is the mind creates the space of a basketball to account for that particular sequence and pattern of electrical signals or nerve firings. That is, a third dimension is added to a mental screen whereby we see or imagine space. Then when you open your eyes, your mind has an additional and concurrent flow of electrical stimulation, which it basically overlays space and time with, illuminating and coloring the ball. Same when additional overlays occur as with (hearing) electrical signals from bouncing the ball, along with smelling and licking it—they're merely the projections of a finite mind processing simultaneous stimulations occurring through multiple and distinguishable (sensory) channels (?dimensions). And that holds all the way to the creation, imagination and projection of a body amidst all that space to make (finite and temporal) sense of it all, and through setting up physics labs and conducting experiments, etc.
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06-14-2021 , 04:29 PM
"Reality" is a word we use in stories about something we can't talk about.


PairTheBoard
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06-14-2021 , 04:35 PM
Not yet seen on gravestone

"Esspoker does not exist" - Reality
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06-14-2021 , 04:50 PM
"Ess does not ess?" That is the question. The eternal one anyway. Seems like whatever is will always be and could not have never been (swhew).
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06-14-2021 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard
"Reality" is a word we use in stories about something we can't talk about.
Not in psychiatric hospitals.
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06-14-2021 , 06:18 PM
Imagine having mental health issues and then some physics guy comes along saying reality doesn't exist...
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06-14-2021 , 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lastcardcharlie
Imagine having mental health issues and then some physics guy comes along saying reality doesn't exist...
No worries! The physics guy doesn't exist either
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06-14-2021 , 07:31 PM
Reality is what's happening


PairTheBoard
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06-14-2021 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard
Reality is what's happening
Cool story bro.


PairTheBoard
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