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Old 09-28-2010, 12:24 PM   #176
plaaynde
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Re: What do you make of THESE ufo's?

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Originally Posted by LirvA View Post
This brings me to my story. I used to work for the air force on a top secret project in Colorado Springs and I was part of a team of scientists trying to reverse engineer a downed extra terrestrial air craft. It had crashed in the mountains and we found it and there were even deceased passengers. No idea what happened to them, I wasn't part of that project, but I did work on the reverse engineering. You'll just have to believe what I say

lol
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:01 PM   #177
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

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By the way, this thread is a terrible idea - it just marginalizes some potentially interesting topics - just because a few people went and started a few silly threads? That is very un-scientific, IMO.
I know this isn't a democracy but I also want to cast my imaginary vote in favour of abandoning this thread. The only good reason that I can see to reconcile varied stuff into a single thread is high traffic causing threads to disappear too quickly, but this isn't NVG, we really don't have that problem. If something is seriously low content then it should be deleted whether it's posted here or in its own thread - but most of this stuff isn't low content, it's just 'whacky,' and would be much easier to read if we weren't lumping a bunch of disparate subjects together.
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:17 PM   #178
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

The non-scientific whacky dramatic things aren´t good for this forum. Either they go to the fringe thread or are locked. I think that is right. Zeno has my vote on this.
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:13 PM   #179
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

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Originally Posted by Homes View Post
By the way, this thread is a terrible idea - it just marginalizes some potentially interesting topics
certainly a potential problem, lets us know when it happens and we can ask for the original thread to be restored.
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:00 AM   #180
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

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certainly a potential problem, lets us know when it happens and we can ask for the original thread to be restored.
I see what you mean. Had the singularity thread been treated that way, it should have been restored, imho. Right now I can´t see any need for separate ufo-threads. Maybe though, if the 'aliens' part is skipped .
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Old 09-29-2010, 03:52 PM   #181
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

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Originally Posted by Homes View Post
By the way, this thread is a terrible idea - it just marginalizes some potentially interesting topics - just because a few people went and started a few silly threads? That is very un-scientific, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guesswest View Post
I know this isn't a democracy but I also want to cast my imaginary vote in favour of abandoning this thread. The only good reason that I can see to reconcile varied stuff into a single thread is high traffic causing threads to disappear too quickly, but this isn't NVG, we really don't have that problem. If something is seriously low content then it should be deleted whether it's posted here or in its own thread - but most of this stuff isn't low content, it's just 'whacky,' and would be much easier to read if we weren't lumping a bunch of disparate subjects together.
amen. i've been saying this since they created this thread after my moon landing thread was locked.

it isn't up to certain people to determine what is scientific or "fringe" etc. 2 weeks ago, a thread on UFOs would've been "fringe" by their standards, yet today there are hundreds of former military personnel coming forward admitting to having seen such things. that is about as scientific as it gets imo.

here's to creating a new forum for all of these topics and allowing each topic its own thread.
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Old 09-29-2010, 04:19 PM   #182
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

Could we call it the "Fringe Topics Forum"?

See the problem?

And the thing is, yes, it is up to certain people to determine what is scientific. Before this thread was created the forum was being overrun with arguments about things that, frankly, most scientific-minded people thought were ridiculous, and the quality of discussion was about what you'd expect as a result. So in a sense, it doesn't really matter — in this forum — whether aliens really did make the Nazca drawings or the moon landing really was faked, if almost everyone who posts here thinks those claims laughable. The true believers can still make their cases here if they want, possibly convincing others, but in the meantime the forum as a whole doesn't devolve into the derision that characterizes threads devoted to topics that are widely perceived as not belonging in a science forum.
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Old 09-29-2010, 04:49 PM   #183
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

The real problem is it's not very effective. It serves two purposes, the stated one of providing one single area for subjects not generally considered appropriate, and the unstated one of discouraging those subjects - no-one wants to post their pet theory in the 'fringe topics' thread.

The problem is that because no-one wants to do that, it keeps dropping off the front page. Most 'fringe' OP's are non-regs, so when they come here with their pet theory, they don't know the thread's there, and they're hardly going to look for one.

Since that keeps happening, and Zeno has to lock the new threads anyway, I wonder if it creates about as much trouble as it saves?

And before someone suggests it, the solution should not be to sticky this thread, that would be horrible.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:19 AM   #184
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

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Originally Posted by atakdog View Post
Could we call it the "Fringe Topics Forum"?

See the problem?

And the thing is, yes, it is up to certain people to determine what is scientific. Before this thread was created the forum was being overrun with arguments about things that, frankly, most scientific-minded people thought were ridiculous, and the quality of discussion was about what you'd expect as a result. So in a sense, it doesn't really matter — in this forum — whether aliens really did make the Nazca drawings or the moon landing really was faked, if almost everyone who posts here thinks those claims laughable. The true believers can still make their cases here if they want, possibly convincing others, but in the meantime the forum as a whole doesn't devolve into the derision that characterizes threads devoted to topics that are widely perceived as not belonging in a science forum.

Drivel.

You are so wrong on this matter, it's unbelievable.
The majority of people posting on these topics are skeptics, not believers.
Who are you (or who is anyone) to determine which topics receive proper attention? HINT HINT: There are many actual scientists (not you) who study strange phenomena - not because they are gullible idiots - but because they have an interest in the world. You and Zeno are merely playing the role of suppresser, not of a scientist. LOL at calling yourself 'scientific-minded'.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:25 AM   #185
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

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Originally Posted by All-In Flynn View Post
The real problem is it's not very effective. It serves two purposes, the stated one of providing one single area for subjects not generally considered appropriate, and the unstated one of discouraging those subjects - no-one wants to post their pet theory in the 'fringe topics' thread.

The problem is that because no-one wants to do that, it keeps dropping off the front page. Most 'fringe' OP's are non-regs, so when they come here with their pet theory, they don't know the thread's there, and they're hardly going to look for one.

Since that keeps happening, and Zeno has to lock the new threads anyway, I wonder if it creates about as much trouble as it saves?

And before someone suggests it, the solution should not be to sticky this thread, that would be horrible.

A few general comments:

It is a reasonable solution that has helped remove clutter and crap from the Forum (see atakdog's post which I think sums up things fairly well). We circumscribe a thread for those that wish to spout conspiracies and other fringe or pet ideas from Tarot Card readings to Bigfoot. If such posters dislike the moniker I have used for the thread too bad. I could return to just deleting all outer limit threads and then there would be no place for their posts in SMP at all. Anyway, as I stated before, there has to be some rules and order for any forum to function in a coherent manner and aspire to quality posts and discussion, especially one with an emphasis on scientific and philosophical inquiry.

I could rename the thread: The Official Outer Limits Thread which may remove some of the negitivity that some may associate with Fringe. I could also bump the thread on a weekly basis to keep it within sniffing distance of those that wish to accost the forum with whatever wild conjectures they wish.

And yes, Elvis has just left the building.


-Zeno
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:31 AM   #186
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

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Originally Posted by Homes View Post
You are so wrong on this matter, it's unbelievable.
The majority of people posting on these topics are skeptics, not believers.
Who are you (or who is anyone) to determine which topics receive proper attention? HINT HINT: There are many actual scientists (not you) who study strange phenomena - not because they are gullible idiots - but because they have an interest in the world. You and Zeno are merely playing the role of suppresser, not of a scientist. LOL at calling yourself 'scientific-minded'.
Its the type of subject that attracts whackjobs. Still it was a mainstream news story(I saw it at several respected outlets) and on that basis I think he should have allowed it to be its own thread. He could have merged it with the fringe topic thread if it got out of control. Forgive Zeno, sometimes we suffers from his premature moderation...but he means well.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:34 AM   #187
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

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Originally Posted by atakdog View Post
And the thing is, yes, it is up to certain people to determine what is scientific.
That's as may be, but science is a process not a set of facts. Claims that we didn't go to the moon or that we can create gold from household cleaning products may be ridiculous, but the discussion/refutation is scientific in nature, which makes it science, which makes this the right forum. A few of these subjects aren't science at all, but in that case they shouldn't be in this forum at all, eg JFK assassination belongs in politics.

It just makes it enormously difficult to have a conversation about anything posted because there are multiple ongoing threads combined in one and thre is no necessity because SMP has hardly any traffic. Fringe theories are typically BS, but there's always the possibility of a diamond in the rough and it'd suck to miss it.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:22 AM   #188
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

please reconsider.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:40 AM   #189
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

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Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
I could rename the thread: The Official Outer Limits Thread which may remove some of the negitivity that some may associate with Fringe. I could also bump the thread on a weekly basis
You have my vote on this.
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:34 PM   #190
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Re: Official Fringe Topics Thread

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Originally Posted by Homes View Post
There are many actual scientists (not you) who study strange phenomena - not because they are gullible idiots - but because they have an interest in the world.
yes,

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science..."

-Albert Einstein
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:53 PM   #191
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Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

With the official title change for this thread I will repost a modified version of the original explanation for the thread's creation (keep in mind the following are not the only reasons).

The continued use of this official thread thus has two main purposes: first, to allow as complete as possible the freedom of speech and inquirer to query about a wide range of supposedly strange phenomena and topics; and second, to bring a semblance of order and intelligence to SMP. This will obviously be accomplished by having all topics of this nature confined to a single thread, similar to the official Math/Physics Homework thread, for critique, discussion, and debunking as appropriate. Obviously this will attract credulous posts from the throbbing masses but this will not always be the case as there are some legitimate or honest question(s) that can be asked about seemly strange phenomena and some may wish for no more than a critique or rational explanation or to pull away the curtain of ignorance.


This thread is designated for all non-political, non-religious topics that stretch the "outer limits".


In honor of the new title the thread will be dedicated to the following foundations/organizations:

James Randi Educational Foundation:

http://www.randi.org/site/


Skeptical Inquirer Magazine:

http://www.csicop.org/si/


The Skeptic Magazine:

http://www.skeptic.com/the_magazine/


And to Carl Sagan:

http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-...5984353&sr=1-1


Elvis just landed on the moon.


-Zeno

Last edited by Zeno; 10-02-2010 at 10:51 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:41 PM   #192
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Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

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Elvis just landed on the moon.
Really?
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Old 10-02-2010, 12:01 AM   #193
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Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

I welcome the newly-established control of the horizontal and the vertical.
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Old 10-02-2010, 01:31 AM   #194
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Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
With the official title change for this thread I will repost a modified version of the original explanation for the thread's creation (keep in mind the following are not the only reasons).

The continued use of this official thread thus has two main purposes: first, to allow as complete as possible the freedom of speech and inquirer to query about a wide range of supposedly strange phenomena and topics; and second, to bring a semblance of order and intelligence to SMP. This will obviously be accomplished by have all topics of this nature confined to a single thread, similar to the official Math/Physics Homework thread, for critique, discussion, and debunking as appropriate. Obviously this will attract credulous posts from the throbbing masses but this will not always be the case as there are some legitimate or honest question(s) that can be asked about seemly strange phenomena and some may wish for no more than a critique or rational explanation or to pull away the curtain of ignorance.


This thread is designated for all non-political, non-religious topics that stretch the "outer limits".


In honor of the new title the thread will be dedicated to the following foundations/organizations:

James Randi Educational Foundation:

http://www.randi.org/site/


Skeptical Inquirer Magazine:

http://www.csicop.org/si/


The Skeptic Magazine:

http://www.skeptic.com/the_magazine/


And to Carl Sagan:

http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-...5984353&sr=1-1


Elvis just landed on the moon.


-Zeno
Cool.

If anyone is interested in some serious psychic/paranormal-power debunking, check out the James Randi forums. They summarize all the failed proposals for the million-dollar prize.

http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=43

(For those who aren't familiar with the prize - the James Randi foundation keeps a million in escrow for anyone that can prove any paranormal or psychic power in a controlled test environment.)
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Old 10-02-2010, 08:37 AM   #195
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Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

what about the X Prize?!

http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/

"The Google Lunar X PRIZE is a
$30 million competition for the
first privately funded team to
send a robot to the moon, travel
500 meters and transmit video,
images and data back to the Earth"

i wonder how no one has scooped this up yet?! its not even meant to send a person!

heck, the technology went from zero to "the most incredible technology ever developed by man" in 8 years from 1961-1969 (using the technology available in the 60s no less) yet over 40 years later a private team cannot send a robot up for $30 mil?

that seems off to me.
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Old 10-02-2010, 09:25 AM   #196
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Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

Politics has the conspiracy thread and SMP has this. We need in RGT for the trifecta.
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Old 10-02-2010, 11:24 AM   #197
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Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

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Originally Posted by donniccolo View Post
what about the X Prize?!

http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/

"The Google Lunar X PRIZE is a $30 million competition for the first privately funded team to send a robot to the moon, travel 500 meters and transmit video, images and data back to the Earth"

i wonder how no one has scooped this up yet?! its not even meant to send a person!

heck, the technology went from zero to "the most incredible technology ever developed by man" in 8 years from 1961-1969 (using the technology available in the 60s no less) yet over 40 years later a private team cannot send a robot up for $30 mil?

that seems off to me.
These are non-government organizations that have been working on this for only 3 years. Plus, what they're working on are the robots that will walk the moon and send back the images.

http://www.universetoday.com/67066/w...lunar-x-prize/

"Likely, the biggest challenge right now for the teams is money, as the teams must be at least 90% privately funded. So the teams are looking for funding, as well as trying to find a ride to the Moon that doesn’t blow their entire budget.

'The problem of getting into orbit is considerably greater than anyone expected it to be,' said Richard Speck, Micro-Space Inc. team leader in an article in Space News. 'The market for secondary payload services is fragmented and in turmoil.'"

So you see, the issue isn't getting the technology to get into space, it's doing so cheaply without getting money from a government. You're going to have to try harder to prove your false belief.
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Old 10-02-2010, 11:32 AM   #198
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Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

James Randi
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Old 10-02-2010, 12:15 PM   #199
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Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

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Originally Posted by Hardball47 View Post
Politics has the conspiracy thread and SMP has this. We need in RGT for the trifecta.
RGT has RGT
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Old 10-02-2010, 12:34 PM   #200
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Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by donniccolo View Post
what about the X Prize?!

http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/

"The Google Lunar X PRIZE is a
$30 million competition for the
first privately funded team to
send a robot to the moon, travel
500 meters and transmit video,
images and data back to the Earth"

i wonder how no one has scooped this up yet?! its not even meant to send a person!

heck, the technology went from zero to "the most incredible technology ever developed by man" in 8 years from 1961-1969 (using the technology available in the 60s no less) yet over 40 years later a private team cannot send a robot up for $30 mil?

that seems off to me.
$30 million ? You´re kidding? If I remember correctly, the Apollo project cost 20+ billion back in 1969. How much has inflation worked after that? Could check it up, but it may be that the dollar to day is worth one 10-30th of the dollar of 1969, let´s say one 20th. Then the Apollo project would cost 400+ billion dollars. That is more than 10,000 times more than the minor prize of 30 million dollars.
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