Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread - Page 13 - Science, Math and Philosophy Forum

No... but seriously

Our galaxy (milky way) has +100 billion stars, in our universe, we think there are more than 100+ billion galaxies. So if in every star has a planet of intelligence life, then how many alien civilizations would we have?

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05-12-2011 , 02:12 PM

#302

LXThrottle

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Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,396

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryss

for anyone to be 100% certain is ignorant.

Are you sure of that?

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05-12-2011 , 05:19 PM

#303

Piers

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Could other species have came on Earth and mated with humans?

Genetic evidence makes it virtual certain that this is not true. There is very little difference between our genome and that of other primates. If extraterrestrial genetic material were introduced into the human genome we would be able to tell.

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05-12-2011 , 06:40 PM

#304

atakdog

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Well, come on, it's possible that extraterrestrials came to Earth and mated with humans, but the resulting hybrid offspring weren't viable or didn't reproduce successfully so the alien genes didn't get passed on to the present day.

Guess that's not what he meant, though.

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05-12-2011 , 06:50 PM

#305

Piers

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Originally Posted by atakdog

There is the issue of compatible genitalia. Still that never seems to be a problem on Star Trek.

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05-12-2011 , 08:44 PM

#306

Vael

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For deep theoretical reasons, aliens, if they exist, are likely to resemble attractive human females in important ways.

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05-12-2011 , 11:42 PM

#307

dipstikdave

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Originally Posted by Piers

would we be able to tell if they mated with all the primates, not just the ones that became human?

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05-13-2011 , 12:33 AM

#308

atakdog

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Originally Posted by Piers

There is the issue of compatible genitalia. Still that never seems to be a problem on Star Trek.

Think back and picture some of those Star Trek alien women — it would have been a travesty if the genitalia weren't compatible. And not even necessarily a game-ender.

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05-13-2011 , 12:40 AM

#309

desperad0oo7

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If aliens came to earth and mated with humans, the obvious thing would be to keep the babies for themselves. ldo

hence no DNA trace

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05-13-2011 , 01:09 AM

#310

atakdog

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Agreed. But if they're going to be humanoid, slim, busty, and usually oversexed, as television and movies seem to tell us they will be, I hope they return:

Spoiler:

Yes, I welcome our alien overlords, or I guess I mean overladies.

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05-13-2011 , 01:48 AM

#311

Piers

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Originally Posted by dipstikdave

would we be able to tell if they mated with all the primates, not just the ones that became human?

They would need to mate with anything we have sequence the genome to – mouse, rice, puffer fish and E coli. Otherwise the differences would stand out and we would already know about it.

Not sure if mating with humans and human form cyborg refugees from a nuclear holocaust on another planet counts. As arguable they are not a different species.

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05-13-2011 , 01:50 AM

#312

desperad0oo7

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Spoiler:

but honestly, even if there was alien DNA floatng around in the general population, what are the odds of running into it? it's not like everyone gets his DNA sequenced

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05-13-2011 , 02:08 AM

#313

Piers

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Originally Posted by desperad0oo7

but honestly, even if there was alien DNA floatng around in the general population, what are the odds of running into it? it's not like everyone gets his DNA sequenced

It would need to have been very recent, not to have entered the common gene pool.

Lots of people have there DNA analysed. I have had mine done by 23andMe. 30% chance of prostrate cancer

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05-13-2011 , 02:22 AM

#314

atakdog

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Didn't I just read (probably here on SMP) that the AMA is pushing Congress to regulate the DNA screening market, with one proposal being that getting a test could only be done with a prescription? (Quite laughable since part of the AMA's position is that genetic testing is a new and not-well-understood area and that therefore doctors don't know much about it...)

If you're going to get screened, do it now before the bigs monopolize the industry.

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05-14-2011 , 12:18 AM

#315

plaaynde

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Good post. This is one of the scarce instances when bringing a poker theme into SMP is legit

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05-14-2011 , 12:28 AM

#316

chezlaw

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Quote:

Originally Posted by GCBiloxi

Why Technology is endangering Poker

If you've ever played live you've probably heard stories of cheating, marked cards, luminescent inks, contact lenses etc.

Well what about infared thinfilms & Radio Frequency Technology? There are literally hundreds of ways to cheat poker, most detectable, I recently had the opportunity of playing with a group of people in a $10 $25 $50 game in New Orleans who were using cards with manufactured infared wavelength thinfilms that could be viewed by only the cheaters. They were caught when a player stole cards from the game & had them put under infared.

Over the last few years we've seen major advances in technology, in particular in the field of nanotechnology. Nanotech brings a whole new perspective on how poker can be cheated. What if I told you that playing cards were being manufactured that could change from one card to another like a chameleon card. Before you deem this impossible you can spend about 10 minutes online googling nano optics, color tunable thinfilms etc before you realize the technology is there. There are actually several ways this can be done. What's even more bizarre is some of the most powerful companies in the gambling industry today have patents on playing cards that can do this.

Bally Technology - Articles & Methods to facilitate the delivery of Playing Cards. Patent # 11480345

I'll just post a piece from the patent here:

"In still other embodiments, the playing card media may take the form of existing playing cards, from which the playing card value markings will be erased, prior to being reformed or otherwise generated. In some embodiments, the playing card media may take the form of a fiber based media, for example card stock, vellum, or polymer based media. In some embodiments, the playing card media takes the form of an active media, for example a form of electronic or "e-paper", smart paper, and/or ink code, which allows the formation and erasure of markings via electrical, magnetic, or electromagnetic radiation.

Smart paper is a product developed by Xerox Palo Alto Research Center, of Palo Alto, Calif. The smart paper consists of a flexible polymer containing millions of small balls and electronic circuitry. Each ball has a portion of a first color and a portion of a second color, each portion having an opposite charge from the other portion. Applying a charge causes the balls to rotate within the polymer structure, to display either the first or the second color. Charges can be selectively applied to form different ones or groups of the balls to from the respective markings 154-160 on the playing cards 108. The markings 154-160 remain visible until another charge is applied. Alternatively, the playing card handling system 120c can be adapted to employ color-changing inks such as thermochromatic inks (e.g., liquid crystal, leucodyes) which change color in response to temperature fluctuations, and photochromatic inks that respond to variations in UV light"

A patent that uses a random number generator to deliver physical playing cards, HMMMM

What about this one from Cantor Gaming, A subsidiary of Cantor Fitzgeral:

Mobile Playing Card Devices: 12479968

This one also uses a random number generator to randomize the deck of physical playing cards, .02 inches thick, about the same as a normal playing card.

What about this article :

Precision Polymer Processors Gentex Corp. | Archbald, PA | Company ...Dec 14, 2010 ... a joint-venture company formed by Kem Plastic and Gentex Corp., of Carbondale, Pa. To make casino-grade...

And this patent from Gentex of Carbondale PA: Substrate mounting for Organic Dielectric Optical films. 6951681

Why would a playing card company team up with a company that makes Optical thinfilms of nanosize? Hmmm

Or what about Europes largest cardmaker Cartamundi teaming up with a company called Thin Film technologies, also a nanotech thinfilm Com. HMMM

Heres the headline: Thin Film Electr. : - Cartamundi and Thinfilm have agreed to extend Cartamundi's production and commercialization rights to Thinfilm's memory technology under the Patent and Know-How, License Agreement signed in 2007.

After spending a couple years of my life researching this technology, I finally got to see one of these cards in person, The card was an exact replica of a Casino KEM CARD. You couldn't tell the difference with the naked eye & the card was made of Cellulose Acetate just like casino cards. Cellulose Acetate is a crystallized polymer that can be used to create nanosized thin films & can be used to tune optical films to any color by changing the refractive index, or wavelength of light that it aborbs or reflects back to your eye.

Recent advances in metamaterials & photonic crystals have made it possible to change matter at the molecular level & color tune synthesized objects.

I bring this up only because I've seen these cards & I've been cheated by them. They can change in a nanosecond. I also have reason to believe that they are much more widespread than anyone can imagine because of the place where I discovered them.

Casinos most likely have plans to implement these cards in the future & claim in fine print they are controlled with a RNG when you in fact believe them to be random because of a shuffle, either by hand or shufflemachine. Otherwise why would the largest technology company in gaming have patents on the cards?

Gabe Costner

Those cards sound like an excellent idea, not sure why they particularly concern you. It will enhance live play, make it mroe fun and increase hourly profits for the pros and casinos. Why wouldn't they be going to implement things like that?

Casinos games will be honest for the same reasons and to the same extent they are now.

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05-14-2011 , 12:52 AM

#317

Aaron W.

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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...poker-1022440/

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05-14-2011 , 12:53 AM

#318

chezlaw

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Quote:

Originally Posted by GCBiloxi

Chezlaw, One of the reasons I posted this was because the place where the card come from was from a casino, I posted this in such a manner to let people know that these cards could be developed, however they are in use now. With a laser & thin film dye technology

Cheating has always gone on.

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Last year at the WSOP I turned down a good bit of money from Full Tilt & Poker Stars when I held the chip lead in the main event with 50 players left. I refused to wear their logo because I've proved over the years that they are cheating.

oh dear. I dont believe you. I assume you have links to the discussion on 2+2 where you explained your proof.

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The last thing a live player wants is for his cards to be determined with an RNG that is subject to manipulation. It isn't limited to poker

I suspect most live players will be delighted. I might even be able to play live without wanting to chew my own arm off.

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05-14-2011 , 01:04 AM

#319

chezlaw

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Quote:

Originally Posted by GCBiloxi

Actually Chez, they pretty much ban your account on 2+2 for even bringing up the idea that online poker could be rigged, so in effect a valid conversation about the matter could never take place on these forums.

No they dont. the cheating at UB was thouroughly discussed.

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In 2008 I turned down 20k for WPT table & last year 40-45k at the main event, both from FT & PS.

I have no opinion on that. I dont believe you have proof of cheating on Stars and FT.

If you have then like for UB, 2+2 would be very very interested.

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05-14-2011 , 01:15 AM

#320

chezlaw

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Quote:

Originally Posted by GCBiloxi

Chez, They actually banned an account of mine for ....

That isn't suprising.

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When online poker 1st started with planet poker & paradise etc. , the play was extremely bad, players like myself could essentially have destroyed them playing several tables at once, so poker sites use parody algorythms to keep anyone from winning or losing too much, that way the money is circulated & maximum revenue.

I was playing there too and lol

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05-14-2011 , 01:16 AM

#321

plaaynde

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This isn't a good thread anymore. I thought we would talk about the interesting points of the technology. This appears to be only the usual paranoia, "Poker is rigged", only wrapped in a new envelope.

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05-14-2011 , 01:31 AM

#322

PingClown

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Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,002

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCBiloxi

I bring this up only because I've seen these cards & I've been cheated by them. They can change in a nanosecond. I also have reason to believe that they are much more widespread than anyone can imagine because of the place where I discovered them.

I consider this unlikely. Do you have evidence?

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Casinos most likely have plans to implement these cards in the future & claim in fine print they are controlled with a RNG when you in fact believe them to be random because of a shuffle, either by hand or shufflemachine.

I also consider this unlikely. Casinos have a strong interest to be fair in their dealings. Scandal and perceived cheating is a huge threat to their business.

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Otherwise why would the largest technology company in gaming have patents on the cards?

For lots of reasons. One entirely plausible reason is to stop anyone else from manufacturing them. Another is because they could be a profitable novelty item in future.

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05-14-2011 , 01:31 AM

#323

chezlaw

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,912

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCBiloxi

I agree, I would rather change the discussion away from online poker. The point of the post was to bring to attention new technologies that are being implemented in the gaming industry.

So lets ignore the rigged aspect, tell us about the science.

Also, I kinda assumed playing cards of the future would be card size thin ipad type devices with dealing replaced by each card being generated electronically. seemed likely that would be realistic in a few years. Is this nano technology a real contender.

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05-14-2011 , 01:40 AM

#324

Piers

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Quote:

Originally Posted by GCBiloxi

ban your account on 2+2 for even bringing up the idea that online poker could be rigged,

No one disagrees that there are players cheating online. But suggesting an industry wide conspiracy to defraud you is paranoid nonsense.

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Originally Posted by GCBiloxi

Nonsense. From both a statics standpoint and a software engineering standpoint.

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Originally Posted by GCBiloxi

They recently did studies on how many people thought online sites cheated, over 70% responded yes in other forums, here they did a similar study & it was the opposite, point being that over the years 2+2 has banned most of the intelligent posters that actually debated the legitimacy

Guess 2+2 posters are less paranoid.

Online games are tough compared to both ten years ago and live games. Personally I think strong players are a much bigger problem than cheaters.

Your obvious paranoia throws much doubt on your OP.

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05-14-2011 , 01:47 AM

#325

chezlaw

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,912

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCBiloxi

Chez, I think you are missing the point, They are exactly, exactly, let me say that again, exactly like the KEM cards used in the casinos. They are cellulose acetate organic polymers. You could not tell the difference without scanning electron microscope or elemental analysis.

The cards are made of highly dense organic polymer so the cards cannot be marked without extra force, I have a card, It is not regular dye as in the process made by regular kem cards, The dye are synthesized into a thin film acid so irridation can occur & swith the card,

There are several ways to to this, but I tell you how the one I have was made. Gentex helps make KEM casino cards, Why?? They make light management products & they are making them now, not in the future, but now.

A company called Datalase makes a similar technology, it can print a plastic article remotely using laser code, These cards are made to do the same

Whats the costing like? I assume it could be done with conventional technology as well but would cost too much.

How fast does an image update? This could be great for portable computer screens.

and how fast does a card switch to the new image

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