How long does evidence of civilization last? - Page 2 - Science, Math and Philosophy Forum

Intentionally leaving evidence is evidence of human intentionality and our value for evidence- which may itself communicate something recognizable to a potential future ancestor.

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04-25-2019 , 12:41 AM

#27

suzzer99

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Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

So how long does Mt. Rushmore last?

I think I may have triggered this thread with my question in Politics. But basically I was wondering if there was an advanced civilization on Mars a billion years ago - could we detect it? Would there still be satellites or something?

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04-25-2019 , 08:57 AM

#28

lastcardcharlie

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Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,435

Mt. Rushmore got destroyed in the great SJW purge of 2030.

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Borglum was a member of the Ku Klux Klan. He was one of the six knights who sat on the Imperial Koncilium in 1923, which transferred leadership of the Ku Klux Klan from Imperial Wizard Colonel Simmons to Imperial Wizard Hiram Evans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutzon_Borglum

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04-25-2019 , 11:12 AM

#29

Zeno

Le Misanthrope

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,369

Thanks Lastcard for injecting that box of (political) dynamite into the thread. When, and if, I ever make it back to London you owe me one fabalous dinner or a case of single malt Scotch, whichever is more. And free taxi service.

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04-25-2019 , 11:22 AM

#30

SenorKeeed

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

According to wikipedia it erodes one inch every 10,000 years. So in a million years it will wear eight feet. Might be still recognizable as a sculpture then, probably not in 10 million years when it's worn 80 feet.

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04-25-2019 , 12:22 PM

#31

suzzer99

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What if we made a new Mt. Rushmore out of bronze?

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04-25-2019 , 01:50 PM

#32

plaaynde

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 20,067

This could be something showing something was going on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KBS-3

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The (nuclear) waste is encapsulated in cast iron canisters.
The cast iron canisters are encapsulated in copper (CuOFP alloy) capsules.
The capsules are deposited in a layer of bentonite clay, in a circular hole, eight meters deep and with a diameter of two meters, drilled in a cave 500 metres down into crystalline rock.
After the storage facility is full, the drill hole is sealed and the site marked.

It's being 500 meters deep down resisting erosion and cave being filled up that should show marks of an advanced civilization for a very very very long time. Wouldn't be surprised if it being there a billion of years forward, if "they" can find it.

Last edited by plaaynde; 04-25-2019 at 01:59 PM.

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04-25-2019 , 02:32 PM

#33

suzzer99

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Yeah that last part is the big one. Isn't 500M down several miles down after millions of years? It would take an upheaval to bring it to the surface.

If there was a small satellite still orbiting Mars - I wonder if we'd have even detected it by now? It's not like we're installing radar stations over there.

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04-25-2019 , 03:27 PM

#34

plaaynde

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Good point. It could be some random place where the aliens find traces of us, a bit like we find dinosaur bones, just happening to emerge.

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04-25-2019 , 03:37 PM

#35

suzzer99

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For most of human history there might have been from a few thousand to a few million individuals alive at any given time. Now there are 7 billion or whatever.

Let's say velociraptors went through a similar phase right before they went extinct. I wonder if the spike in # of potential fossils would be detectable.

Like say if humans live like this another 500 years - would there be a layer of human fossils that keeps popping up at the same geologic time strata all over the world?

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04-25-2019 , 03:58 PM

#36

TimM

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Fossils do not form easily. For example, all the people buried in cemeteries won't become fossils.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/article...-after-you-die

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04-25-2019 , 04:09 PM

#37

suzzer99

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Well maybe the great cataclysm will involve tons of mudslides.

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04-25-2019 , 04:58 PM

#38

SenorKeeed

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

What if we made a new Mt. Rushmore out of bronze?

Granite is really hard. Id be surprised if granite weathered faster than bronze.

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04-25-2019 , 05:24 PM

#39

TimM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Well maybe the great cataclysm will involve tons of mudslides.

Hopefully the kind you drink.

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04-25-2019 , 06:31 PM

#40

suzzer99

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorKeeed

Granite is really hard. Id be surprised if granite weathered faster than bronze.

The documentary about life after people said bronze degrades the slowest.

However they didn't mean in the weather - they meant like bronze sculptures that get buried and found.

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04-26-2019 , 01:32 PM

#41

plaaynde

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You would bury the bronze Mt Rushmore?

Good look with the financing.

(

)

"We can have our own terracotta army"

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04-26-2019 , 01:55 PM

#42

Zeno

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,369

Quote:

Originally Posted by plaaynde

This could be something showing something was going on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KBS-3

It's being 500 meters deep down resisting erosion and cave being filled up that should show marks of an advanced civilization for a very very very long time. Wouldn't be surprised if it being there a billion of years forward, if "they" can find it.

Do a bit more critical thinking - hypothesis of how many deep oil and other wells (and associated structures) will still be around, as fossil remnants in the stratigraphy record. Or even exposed/re-exposed at the earth's surface in the distance future.

Also, the misunderstanding of basic Paleontology in this thread is rather blatant. Stephen J. Gould is rolling over in his bed stationed at the lowest circle of Hell.

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04-26-2019 , 02:13 PM

#43

plaaynde

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My example may still rule though!

They would be like WTF is this.

And naturally they will find other "skeletons" than our fragile bodily.

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04-26-2019 , 03:10 PM

#44

Zeno

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,369

You are blabbering now, look up CERN. Also all mining, from open pit to deep shafts and etc. Also oil wells now and into the future are drilled much deeper than a paltry 500 meters. Other examples abound which I will leave open for others to find and explore.

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04-26-2019 , 04:13 PM

#45

suzzer99

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeno

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Originally Posted by Zeno

Jesus you are horrible. I can see why Keeeed didn't lead me over here.

I'm so smart I'm going to loftily put all of you down for not doing enough critical thinking, but not really offer any examples other than vague ideas and homework assignments for someone else.

The whole thread should just be pontificating about ideas - not putting people down for doing so. Wtf.

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04-26-2019 , 04:46 PM

#46

Trolly McTrollson

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Mass extinctions caused by humans are going to be seen in the fossil record. Also, Pu239 isotopes created by people are going to be around for 20,000 years or so.

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04-26-2019 , 04:52 PM

#47

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

What we need is something that will last and the government is willing to pay for at this time.

Spoiler:

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04-26-2019 , 06:45 PM

#48

Zeno

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,369

Asking people to excerise some critical thinking skills is not putting them down- at all. In fact the opposite, I'm trusting that most are interested enough and smart enough to figure things out for themselves. It also serves the function that the majority will take to learn and retain more from self explanatory learning than from being spoon feed information. Now that would be pontification.

And just to note some history, plaaynde and I banter about like above all the time. It's partially all in fun.

Last edited by Zeno; 04-26-2019 at 06:50 PM.

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04-26-2019 , 09:28 PM

#49

plaaynde

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Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

In principle you are right.

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04-26-2019 , 09:38 PM

#50

Zeno

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,369

No. In principle he is completely wrong. So are you. As usual per your posting history, old friend. But it doesn't matter; this is the internet and group think is what counts. Beer counts also, more than you think. Just ask chez, but he has lost his grip on reality and his mind has deflated. Only Brian the Mick and a few others remain up right and true.

Last edited by Zeno; 04-26-2019 at 10:17 PM. Reason: Wording

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