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Old 09-07-2018, 06:43 AM   #26
masque de Z
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Re: Game Theories

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Originally Posted by antialias View Post

No, "just being part of the game" doesn't influence the outcome of a quantum random generator ...which is probably nothing more than a timer, a photdetector and a weakly radioactive element...like the one used for 'hotbits'
https://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/
Why doesnt it get influence by you? You interact with that quantum system. Measurement involves interaction at some level. You collectively own the outcome. If the quantum system is coupled in a chaotic way with an external agent the things that interact with the quantum system are interacting with you and you affect them and they affect the outcome. They all generate "luck" together. If you select from a precollected sequence it is not the same but the universe in a way is connected in such a manner that you probably all have influenced each other eventually plus you still determine the time the sequence is collected. How did mankind got there to built that machine? It all got there together in endless interactions that produce the final outcome together that produces the player, the game and the generator.

QM is waiting for the miracle description of the big drama. It wont have to wait very long. Nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come...or ran out! Even time's itself.

Last edited by masque de Z; 09-07-2018 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:23 PM   #27
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Heart Re: Game Theories

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Originally Posted by masque de Z View Post
Why doesnt it get influence by you? You interact with that quantum system. Measurement involves interaction at some level. You collectively own the outcome. If the quantum system is coupled in a chaotic way with an external agent the things that interact with the quantum system are interacting with you and you affect them and they affect the outcome. They all generate "luck" together. If you select from a precollected sequence it is not the same but the universe in a way is connected in such a manner that you probably all have influenced each other eventually plus you still determine the time the sequence is collected. How did mankind got there to built that machine? It all got there together in endless interactions that produce the final outcome together that produces the player, the game and the generator.

QM is waiting for the miracle description of the big drama. It wont have to wait very long. Nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come...or ran out! Even time's itself.
:diamon d:
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Old 09-09-2018, 02:17 AM   #28
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Re: Game Theories

Any suggestions questions or other ruminations, to get the ball rolling, so to speak?
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:07 PM   #29
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Re: Game Theories

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Originally Posted by antialias View Post
Equlibrium is when deviation from the strategy makes your outcome worse. By playing all rock you make yourself exploitable (by a shift to all paper strategy). So all-rock is obviously worse than random. Nash equilibrium is only applicable if both (all) players are aware of the optimal strategy and use it.

I usually come at it from information theory. if your opponent gives off usable information then there's a strategy that can exploit this information.
Randomness (a random sequence) does not contain information (as per Shannon's definition of information). Any deviation from a random sequence contains a correlation element in the sequence and thus gives off information.


You're just rephrasing the impact of an observer in quantum physics. But that's not how it works (and the various tests on the Bell inequality have demonstrated as much).
Could someone explain shannons law of information in lehhmans? I've googled it and just see a bellcurve to do with entropy
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:10 PM   #30
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Re: Game Theories

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Originally Posted by antialias View Post
You're just rephrasing the impact of an observer in quantum physics. But that's not how it works (and the various tests on the Bell inequality have demonstrated as much).

No, "just being part of the game" doesn't influence the outcome of a quantum random generator ...which is probably nothing more than a timer, a photdetector and a weakly radioactive element...like the one used for 'hotbits'
https://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/
In a spiritual panpsychic sense all atoms particles and material (in an immaterialistic sense) must be conscious, due to the hard problem of consciousness being undefined
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:13 PM   #31
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Re: Game Theories

And it's worth noting you cannot rationalise the first law of thermodynamics.

If energy cannot be created or destroyed, where did it come from?

There is evidence of rapid expansion for the big bang. Dissipation in this universal model instead of the big crunch. But then I think of hitchhikers guide to the galaxy and muse over why...

All the best

Sam
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:02 PM   #32
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Re: Game Theories

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If energy cannot be created or destroyed, where did it come from?
There are some clues on how to go at the issue of energy.

1) It could be a symmetry breaking thing

1) If you count gravity as 'negative energy' then the total amount of energy in the universe comes out to zero (provided we assume a non-curved universe)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe

2) There are so-called complementary variables. The most known pair is momentum and position. These are connected via an Uncertainty Principle (e.g. Heisenberg Uncertainty)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
Energy is also in such a conjugate variable pair together with duration (i.e. the product of how exactly you can measure the energy of a system and how exactly you can measure the moment in time of that energy state is uncertain to below a certain value). So this could point to energy being a symmetry breaking together with time (which makes sorta sense because without a measure of time the idea of energy makes no sense and vice versa.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementarity_(physics)
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Old 09-15-2018, 04:31 AM   #33
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Re: Game Theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by masque de Z View Post
Why doesnt it get influence by you? You interact with that quantum system. Measurement involves interaction at some level. You collectively own the outcome. If the quantum system is coupled in a chaotic way with an external agent the things that interact with the quantum system are interacting with you and you affect them and they affect the outcome. They all generate "luck" together. If you select from a precollected sequence it is not the same but the universe in a way is connected in such a manner that you probably all have influenced each other eventually plus you still determine the time the sequence is collected. How did mankind got there to built that machine? It all got there together in endless interactions that produce the final outcome together that produces the player, the game and the generator.

QM is waiting for the miracle description of the big drama. It wont have to wait very long. Nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come...or ran out! Even time's itself.
You need to be able to measure all of the particles outside of your measurement device. This is impossible.

Theoretically the wave function, that collapses in "observation", is a measurement device size partial sum within a universe size full summation of every particles positions and velocities.

So when you measure a particle, and it leaves your measurement device, you don't know how it changes the rest of the particles since you don't know how they are configured before measurement.

(undergraduate physics understanding)
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Old 09-17-2018, 04:01 AM   #34
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Re: Game Theories

But you know it does influence. The problem here is that you know it influences the system. That is all i was saying. Knowing how it influences is another question. It is protected by complexity and chaos but it ought to be there in principle. We all have influenced each other because we live in a small spacetime system relativistically speaking. We have been inside each other's light-cones basically given how close we are in distance terms (only 13k km).
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:37 PM   #35
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Re: Game Theories

Oh, the influence is so real we have to isolate it. I suspect the coupling to the everything is stronger than my professors give it credit for. I just gotta keep learning and watching with an open mind.
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Old 02-20-2019, 05:17 AM   #36
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Re: Game Theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by antialias View Post
There are some clues on how to go at the issue of energy.

1) It could be a symmetry breaking thing

1) If you count gravity as 'negative energy' then the total amount of energy in the universe comes out to zero (provided we assume a non-curved universe)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe

2) There are so-called complementary variables. The most known pair is momentum and position. These are connected via an Uncertainty Principle (e.g. Heisenberg Uncertainty)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
Energy is also in such a conjugate variable pair together with duration (i.e. the product of how exactly you can measure the energy of a system and how exactly you can measure the moment in time of that energy state is uncertain to below a certain value). So this could point to energy being a symmetry breaking together with time (which makes sorta sense because without a measure of time the idea of energy makes no sense and vice versa.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementarity_(physics)
does this mean you can create energy by causing a gravitational phenomena in a system? how would such an event likely to occur in reality? what does the concept of energy entail in such a scenario

i don't know anything about symmetry, or symmetry breaking, theory wise as it pertains to physical laws (any links or explanations would be appreciated) obviously, the universe is not typically symmetrical, to conceive of nothingness forming a dichotomy of thermodynamic energy and vectorial energy(is gravitational, 'negative' energy vectorial or am i way off? I don't really know how to picture such a concept), where the word energy changes its meaning is interesting to me. it sort of makes sense in that gravitational displacement causes kinetic and thus thermodynamic displacement, the idea that these two cancel each other out/are linked in a foreign abstract energy balancing act seems to make sense intuitively, but is it more wanting to follow pre 'existing' theory of an equilibirum when in reality we can never know if one exists, and may just be going off existing held theories or a pine that an equilibrium is enforced by nature, because to reject such a notion would lead to a realm of chaos that we cannot explain? what would a thought experimental type scientific rejection of equilibrium of energy lead the map of the cosmos, and potential theories of energy/matter to look like?

Is there any observable data contrasting the heat map of the universe, of gravitational phenomenon?
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