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Feminism as a Philosophy Feminism as a Philosophy

02-13-2011 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akileos
Feminism appears to be a term that encompasses a number of perspectives about the injustices that women suffer specifically because of being women and not because of being poor, fat, black, Jewish, Navajo, Muslim, Christian, or, fill in the blank.

It seems to me that any clarification on the causes of those injustices is of great value.

What does feminism oppose? It opposes sexist oppression, as well as sexism.
If it opposed sexist oppression and sexism, then it would oppose the injustices men suffer because of being men just as much as those women suffer because of being women.

Otherwise it's a tool for sexist oppression.

Equality is not a unary operator, and some animals can't be more equal than others.
Feminism as a Philosophy Quote
02-13-2011 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akileos
What does feminism oppose? It opposes sexist oppression, as well as sexism.
No, it promotes sexual oppression, you're confused because its been in the direction of equality
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02-13-2011 , 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by madnak
Degrees was for identification with the group, not for equality.
I'm just trying to characterise 'extreme interpretations' without writing a novel.

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You're describing opposites, here. Those outside of the extremist group still consider themselves capitalists. Ergo, "capitalist" as a term for extremists is inappropriate. Those outside of the extremist group no long consider themselves feminists. Ergo, "feminist" as a term for extremists is appropriate.
I know I'm describing opposites - that's my point. Why does one majority group still consider themselves 'Labellists' whereas in another case the majority group rejects 'Labellist' and changes its meaning? In consideration of the terms' etymology? Don't make me laugh. Aside from the arguable sell-by date of 'feminism' as a meaningful term, I don't see a real explanation.
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02-13-2011 , 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by madnak
Relative to what?

It cost less to pay a wage worker for 80 hours per week than it did to board and manage a bunch of slaves.
It costs more to pay a bunch people wages than it does to board and manage a bunch of slaves.
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02-13-2011 , 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Max Raker
It costs more to pay a bunch people wages than it does to board and manage a bunch of slaves.
Not if they're Mexicans.
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02-13-2011 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
It costs more to pay a bunch people wages than it does to board and manage a bunch of slaves.
Depends. maybe then, probably not now.

The costs are not fixed relative to each other. Slaves being cheap to board and manage requires compliant slaves which itself probably requires a lot from government and certainly requires a lot from the prevailing culture.
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02-13-2011 , 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by All-In Flynn
I know I'm describing opposites - that's my point. Why does one majority group still consider themselves 'Labellists' whereas in another case the majority group rejects 'Labellist' and changes its meaning? In consideration of the terms' etymology? Don't make me laugh. Aside from the arguable sell-by date of 'feminism' as a meaningful term, I don't see a real explanation.
Well, the Tea Party folks aren't as monolithic. Nor have they tried to call themselves simply "capitalists." And there's already a name for them. And they haven't tried to redefine capitalism or waged a campaign saying you're not a "real" capitalist if you don't support the Tea Party.
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02-13-2011 , 03:29 PM
(Shrug) like I said, no analogy's perfect.
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02-13-2011 , 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madnak
If it opposed sexist oppression and sexism, then it would oppose the injustices men suffer because of being men just as much as those women suffer because of being women.

Otherwise it's a tool for sexist oppression.

Equality is not a unary operator, and some animals can't be more equal than others.
A question: What injustices are you referring to specifically?

A comment: Not opposing something is not equal to promoting it.

A slogan: Men have nipples too!
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02-13-2011 , 07:02 PM
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Don't get married. You're too naive to survive it.
Too late, already did, but they didn't last. I'm hard to live with. Spoiled, self indulgent, way too curious for daily life. And demanding. Did I mention demanding?


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I hate repeating myself, so I won't say it again. But please look up what evopsych really says about female mating strategies. Or just look up the word "cuckold" and think about the implications for awhile.
I was simplifying the strategy in reference to the achievement pool. A woman cheating isn't likely to pursue supersuccess.

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Anyhow, let me expound. Women are always gaming. "Drop out of the game" has no meaning for a woman. If you ever think that a woman - any woman - has stopped playing the game, watch your back. You have fallen into a very serious trap.
No, but the game changes, and becomes one of dominance and control. A sub-plot is what she does outside the relationship.

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Women are grifters. You, as someone with a penis, are a born sucker. That is the law of nature, I'm afraid.
What if I don't have a penis? What if I am a woman? Would my last post read any differently? Would my confessed misogynism be viewed with a more tolerant eye? Would that make my opinions more or less valuable? Would my overall posts be read differently than while I was presumed to be a man? Would I be considered cute, patted on the head and ignored? (I know, I'd be ignored either way!) Would I be considered ugly?

Ah, I've laid the clever trap of a female. Whether I'm cute or ugly doesn't matter, in this context, both are compliments. If cute, I'm cute. If ugly, I'm intelligent, per my previous post! Herein lie the real questions and facts of feminism.

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This is the only reason women didn't walk all over men in the old days. We had a compromise. Women still walked all over men as often as not. There's a reason the earliest human literature involved Gilgamesh, greatest hero ever known, getting his ass kicked by a Goddess who is simply too cunning for him. There's a reason Hera always gets her way, even though Zeus is supposed to have unbounded authority in the pantheon. There's a reason the serpent goes after Eve instead of Adam - and there's a reason Adam puts up all the resistance of a wet tissue paper when Eve wants him to fall. There is no literature of any culture in which woman outsmarting man isn't a common motif. And no trickster god or genie king or invincible hero is ever immune.
It's the only reason women still don't walk all over men. Men have the economic power. Women have the genetic power. But women are working hard to give away what they have, in pursuit of what they don't. And women are naive. They can't accept that a large portion of male interest is purely physical. Or that men will say and do anything to sleep with them. Women always believe every attempt at seduction, is because they're individually special. And are sometimes correct, but not usually. Maintain that illusion. It increases the chances of sexual success!~Thus reproductive success. Would women be any more likely to capitulate, if aware that most times it would hardly matter if they were wearing a bag on their head? Might even be preferable?

What's the likely evolution of mankind with the following changes: Birth control is accessable and cheap. Not having children is a status symbol. Women seek random sexuality in numbers equal to men. Men are equally responcible for care of children born. Women have equivalent economic power. The state limits number of children, (like China). How long will it take for the reproductive drive to falter? Will it ever? Surely it's power will equalize among the sexes? How soon will it's cultural expression change?

Gilgamesh was the original Noah, among other things. It's thought to be the the earliest of the flood stories. Hera was a bitch. Just look what she did to Hurcules, all because of jealousy. Zeus had a child with Alceceme (?) while married to Hera. That child was Hurcules. Hera tried to kill Hurcules in numerous nasty ways, but eventually died (the only way to get rid of a nasty woman), and Hurcules, ascinded to Zeus' side and married Hera's daughter! That's a classic woman scorned story. But even after everything the male prevails.

I don't think the snake wooing Eve fits your analagy. In this instance, she's the one being tricked. Just like every woman is, at one time or another.

It takes a while to become human to a sexually interested male. Men have their own form of cunning, and their own reasons for using it. He's thinking, Do you want to have sex with me? Do you want to have sex with me, more than with my friends? . Are you rightfully impressed by my performance? Women (with a few exceptions) are more concerned with feelings. Do you love me? Do you respect me? Will you still want me in the morning? I have a theory. Women have all the power in a relationship untill having sex. Then men have all the power. Even if he wants to sleep with her again. Even if he thinks she's the hottest thing since tamales. Even if she's dissapointed by his performance.

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It's no surprise that you think women are peaceful and innocent. That's what they want you to think.
Believe me, I know women aren't always sweet and innocent, and in fact, are rarely so. Sometimes females are playful and alluring, others seductive and sensual. Sometimes cosmopolitan and sophisticated, others bitter and vengeful. Women are complex creatures. Just like men. But here's a secret. Contrary to popular opinion, women love men just as much as men love women. And once they realize intelligence equals economic success, and status, and once continued evolution (versus devolution) is demonstrated to be dependent on technical brilliance, smart men will catch up and pass, the bad boys, the hot guys, the heretofore alphas. They'll become the alphas. And all of us, women and men, will be better offf.
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02-13-2011 , 08:14 PM
There aren't enough burnt out heroin addicted ex rock stars as librarians. It's not fair that these ex rock stars aren't filtering through to the libraries. It's very prejudiced that these rock stars aren't working in the libraries. It's not because they don't want to work in libraries, it's because society tells the rock stars they shouldn't work in libraries, from a very young age. We need more rock star librarians.
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02-13-2011 , 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akileos
A question: What injustices are you referring to specifically?
You want a list? (Seriously)

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A comment: Not opposing something is not equal to promoting it.
When there are two "sides," and you promote changing the balance of power in favor of one side, you implicitly also promote changing the balance of power to the detriment of the other.
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02-13-2011 , 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by quest_ioner
Too late, already did, but they didn't last. I'm hard to live with. Spoiled, self indulgent, way too curious for daily life. And demanding. Did I mention demanding?
You're really bad at being a misogynist. Repeat after me: "It was all her fault."

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I was simplifying the strategy in reference to the achievement pool. A woman cheating isn't likely to pursue supersuccess.
Well, supersuccess ought to mean something different to a woman.

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No, but the game changes, and becomes one of dominance and control. A sub-plot is what she does outside the relationship.
The game is always one of dominance and control.

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What if I don't have a penis? What if I am a woman? Would my last post read any differently? Would my confessed misogynism be viewed with a more tolerant eye? Would that make my opinions more or less valuable? Would my overall posts be read differently than while I was presumed to be a man? Would I be considered cute, patted on the head and ignored? (I know, I'd be ignored either way!) Would I be considered ugly?
But you do have a penis. Actually if you were a woman I'd think you a somewhat masculine woman and probably an exception to the rule. I'd have to avoid stereotypes and evaluate you on the basis of your behavior.

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Ah, I've laid the clever trap of a female. Whether I'm cute or ugly doesn't matter, in this context, both are compliments. If cute, I'm cute. If ugly, I'm intelligent, per my previous post! Herein lie the real questions and facts of feminism.

It's the only reason women still don't walk all over men. Men have the economic power.
Not for long.

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Women have the genetic power. But women are working hard to give away what they have, in pursuit of what they don't.
Which is the potential salvation of human society. But I think they'll choose money above men.

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And women are naive. They can't accept that a large portion of male interest is purely physical. Or that men will say and do anything to sleep with them. Women always believe every attempt at seduction, is because they're individually special. And are sometimes correct, but not usually. Maintain that illusion. It increases the chances of sexual success!~Thus reproductive success. Would women be any more likely to capitulate, if aware that most times it would hardly matter if they were wearing a bag on their head? Might even be preferable?
Women both know all this and don't know any of it. It's ****ing strange. They can know something in theory, but it has no impact on how they act. And their exceptionalism knows no bounds. "Yes, I know men are just looking for sex, but David's different."

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What's the likely evolution of mankind with the following changes: Birth control is accessable and cheap. Not having children is a status symbol. Women seek random sexuality in numbers equal to men. Men are equally responcible for care of children born. Women have equivalent economic power. The state limits number of children, (like China). How long will it take for the reproductive drive to falter? Will it ever? Surely it's power will equalize among the sexes? How soon will it's cultural expression change?
It's unstable. Hopefully the equilibrium changes (one way or another) and some semblance of stability is achieved. I think the alternative is violence.

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Gilgamesh was the original Noah, among other things. It's thought to be the the earliest of the flood stories. Hera was a bitch. Just look what she did to Hurcules, all because of jealousy. Zeus had a child with Alceceme (?) while married to Hera. That child was Hurcules. Hera tried to kill Hurcules in numerous nasty ways, but eventually died (the only way to get rid of a nasty woman), and Hurcules, ascinded to Zeus' side and married Hera's daughter! That's a classic woman scorned story. But even after everything the male prevails.
That's not how I heard the story. I heard Hercules saved Hera's life, and she wasn't so hard on him after.

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I don't think the snake wooing Eve fits your analagy. In this instance, she's the one being tricked. Just like every woman is, at one time or another.
She's tricked, and following that she tricks Adam.

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It takes a while to become human to a sexually interested male. Men have their own form of cunning, and their own reasons for using it. He's thinking, Do you want to have sex with me? Do you want to have sex with me, more than with my friends? . Are you rightfully impressed by my performance? Women (with a few exceptions) are more concerned with feelings. Do you love me? Do you respect me? Will you still want me in the morning? I have a theory. Women have all the power in a relationship untill having sex. Then men have all the power. Even if he wants to sleep with her again. Even if he thinks she's the hottest thing since tamales. Even if she's dissapointed by his performance.
I don't think men are all that cunning. They will typically experience a fleeting spell of power after sex (though if the guy is a pussy, even that is hardly guaranteed). This lasts, at most for as long as the woman is "in love." That's usually a year or two at most. Then the woman comes shrieking back to her true colors. If the man can't maintain control over her, then she will take everything he has and leave him. Women don't respect those who are of lower status than themselves, and a woman won't stay with someone she doesn't respect. If he loses her respect, poor hubbie is eviscerated - "mercy" is a sentiment reserved for those a woman actually does think something of.

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Believe me, I know women aren't always sweet and innocent, and in fact, are rarely so. Sometimes females are playful and alluring, others seductive and sensual. Sometimes cosmopolitan and sophisticated, others bitter and vengeful. Women are complex creatures. Just like men. But here's a secret. Contrary to popular opinion, women love men just as much as men love women.
Which is less and less lately. Also, you are really bad at being a misogynist.

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And once they realize intelligence equals economic success, and status, and once continued evolution (versus devolution) is demonstrated to be dependent on technical brilliance, smart men will catch up and pass, the bad boys, the hot guys, the heretofore alphas. They'll become the alphas. And all of us, women and men, will be better offf.
They'll only become the alphas if they're smart enough to become the alphas. Life will always be sink or swim for males. That's the lot of males.
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02-14-2011 , 12:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madnak
Well, the Tea Party folks aren't as monolithic. Nor have they tried to call themselves simply "capitalists." And there's already a name for them. And they haven't tried to redefine capitalism or waged a campaign saying you're not a "real" capitalist if you don't support the Tea Party.
I think they are saying, you're not a real republican. Which is worse?

Last edited by quest_ioner; 02-14-2011 at 12:55 AM. Reason: spelling error
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02-14-2011 , 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madnak
Not if they're Mexicans.
I get the comparason between women and slaves, but women and mexicans, that's going too far! Kidding, just kidding.
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02-14-2011 , 12:54 AM
madnak sounds like you have issues brah
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02-14-2011 , 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gullanian
There aren't enough burnt out heroin addicted ex rock stars as librarians. It's not fair that these ex rock stars aren't filtering through to the libraries. It's very prejudiced that these rock stars aren't working in the libraries. It's not because they don't want to work in libraries, it's because society tells the rock stars they shouldn't work in libraries, from a very young age. We need more rock star librarians.


We need more librarian rock stars....better lyrics!
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02-14-2011 , 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by madnak
You want a list? (Seriously)
I'll settle for your top three grievances. The three injustices against men for being men that you think should be stopped.
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02-14-2011 , 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Forelius
We live in a highly competitive free market society.
Grunching: No, we don't.
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02-14-2011 , 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by loK2thabrain
Grunching: No, we don't.
What is grunching? Trolling?
Feminism as a Philosophy Quote
02-14-2011 , 05:24 AM
Another word for "attempting AC hijack"
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02-14-2011 , 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by plaaynde
I believe in equality. Feminism isn´t very accurate imo, it focuses too much on trying to bring down men, has an ideological pathos.

It may be so, that there are more of both low and high achievers among men as compared to that of women. The bell curves may have slightly different shapes for the genders.
^ this.

You will find dumb ***** and ******s in both genders, but each offers different strengths and weaknesses which ultimately balance each other.

As long as people feel the need to say "X is better than Y" then there will always be prejudice, which is pointless and detrimental to our growth as a species.
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02-14-2011 , 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Vael
Another word for "attempting AC hijack"
AC?



PMI:Pardon my ignorance

TYFI:Thank you for the information.

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02-14-2011 , 06:31 AM
Quest, you don't wanna know
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02-14-2011 , 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Akileos
I'll settle for your top three grievances. The three injustices against men for being men that you think should be stopped.
Here's a current topic. Some European court is about to rule on annuities.

An annuity is something you buy that pays an income for the rest of your life, the less time you are expected to live then the less you have to pay for the same annual income.

Currently annuities are cheaper for men than for women because women live longer. The European court is about to rule on this and is expected to make it illegal to charge men less than women.

views?
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