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Do digital currency systems have any intrinsic value? Do digital currency systems have any intrinsic value?

01-11-2018 , 05:55 AM
Can someone find Martin ^ a girlfriend. He is considered not unattractive by his friends.

Adults were talking. Even non Irish ones.
Do digital currency systems have any intrinsic value? Quote
01-11-2018 , 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard
What's this all about? Aren't micropayment transactions limited to 7 per second? Aren't they subject to large fees as well?

Whether it's "intrinsic" or not, the only justification for Bitcoin value is its utility as a transaction medium. If transactions are limited to 7 per second (with high fees to boot) it has only extremely limited utility as a transaction medium and thus only a very low market price for bitcoins is justified. And with a very low market price for bitcoins, even its use being touted above as a medium for high value transactions is extremely limited.

So when will we know its the right time to short the hell out of these things?


PairTheBoard
A lightning channel/transaction starts by locking up a total settlement amount of bitcoin and then sending incrementing promissory notes that cannot be reneged on. The notes can be sent via any fast messenger system and thus are instant and do not cost anything to send. Each incrementing note negates the usefulness of the previous notes because you can ultimately only cash in one note.

When the final amount has been incremented then the receiver can post it to the blockchain and close out the account thus occuring the fee only once.

This is also how p2p poker can be played without worrying about the slow expensive blockchain. Open a channel for the balance of a players chips, and then play poker via promissory notes, which is just like playing via text. Instant and costless until you settle out.
Do digital currency systems have any intrinsic value? Quote
01-11-2018 , 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot
A lightning channel/transaction starts by locking up a total settlement amount of bitcoin and then sending incrementing promissory notes that cannot be reneged on. The notes can be sent via any fast messenger system and thus are instant and do not cost anything to send. Each incrementing note negates the usefulness of the previous notes because you can ultimately only cash in one note.

When the final amount has been incremented then the receiver can post it to the blockchain and close out the account thus occuring the fee only once.

This is also how p2p poker can be played without worrying about the slow expensive blockchain. Open a channel for the balance of a players chips, and then play poker via promissory notes, which is just like playing via text. Instant and costless until you settle out.
Sounds fishy to me. What's the enforcement mechanism? What prevents reneging? What prevents the loser from refusing to settle out? How does this facilitate buying coffee at Starbucks? It sounds like you need a bank to keep a ledger of floating promissory notes and enforce settlements. In other words, you're back to the same system we have now.


PairTheBoard
Do digital currency systems have any intrinsic value? Quote
01-11-2018 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard
Sounds fishy to me. What's the enforcement mechanism? What prevents reneging? What prevents the loser from refusing to settle out? How does this facilitate buying coffee at Starbucks? It sounds like you need a bank to keep a ledger of floating promissory notes and enforce settlements. In other words, you're back to the same system we have now.


PairTheBoard
If I open a 1 bitcoin channel with you by timelocking my bitcoin, I can then digitally sign an otherwise unforgeable transaction that sends .001 bitcoin to your address. Then I can send you the signed transaction.

You can either post it and collect the .001 and end the transfering or you can wait and then I can sign a new transaction that sends .002.

If you claim the second one, the first transaction becomes nullified. If you claim the first one the second becomes nullified.

I can keep incrementing, and I cannot stop you from posting the most recent incremented transaction to the blockchain to claim the highest amount that I have "promised".

If you die and never claim the transactions, a clause in my timelocked bitcoin allows me to refund it after a certain time (That time is set to after our agree upon period that gives you reasonable time to claim your proceeds without me being able to refund).
Do digital currency systems have any intrinsic value? Quote
01-11-2018 , 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
sigh
not troll
semi troll
troll
troll

real opinions pls
Other than the comment on your wife, those are my genuine opinions. I expect that she is pleasant, but her giving you a book isn't sufficient for my opinion to be strong.
Do digital currency systems have any intrinsic value? Quote
01-11-2018 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
.............snip...................

My wife bought me a book yesterday: The Business Blockchain - Mougayar, with a forward by Buterin. Would appreciate any opinions.
IMO, your wife purchased and gave you the wrong book, as wife’s usually do. For a more informative read, and some research, I suggest the list below, starting with The Ascent of Money:

https://www.amazon.com/Ascent-Money-Financial-History-World

Then research a particular coin, its rise and fall, value, and usefulness, and influence etc.; I suggest this one (just a starting point, wiki is about as useful as a bitcoin):

Coinage_of_the_Republic_of_Venice

And couple that research with some history to give you the flavor of what intrinsic value really means and how it is and is not maintained:

City-Fortune-Venice-Ruled-Seas

By the way, I just finished reading the last book on the above list and it is a fantastic read, and full of excellent and useful information that dovetails well with this thread.
Do digital currency systems have any intrinsic value? Quote
01-13-2018 , 01:16 AM
there is definately utility in a layered currency system, where some of the currencies happen to be blockchains or graphs and are deflationary, there is also utility in inflatinary microcurrencies, in my opinion. municipalities with their own central bank...and mass debt monetization.Everyone tries to figure out is it this or that. its both.
Do digital currency systems have any intrinsic value? Quote
01-20-2018 , 11:34 AM
The problem with science is mask and zeno can't find a flaw in reason:

Quote:
An important advancement for our global civilization is the achievement of international stability of currencies. The goal is not stabilization of purchasing power, which is an impossible feat, but the removal of the political component of respective national money supplies.

We see this as achieved by either the scenario of Bitcoin becoming a ubiquitous global currency in conjunction with the hyperinflation of centrally managed national currencies, or via major central banks achieving international value stability between their national currencies by inflation targeting Bitcoin (ie stabilizing exchange rates).

Consider a scenario in which Bitcoin becomes globally adopted as a currency. If the price trend in Bitcoin terms of a certain good in country A differs from that of the same good in country B, this would signal a difference between each country’s supply and demand curves of that certain good as opposed to differences between each country’s monetary policies.

In the second scenario, where central banks successfully value target Bitcoin, any differing price trends of a certain good between country A and country B would also reflect the differences between local supply and demand curves of that certain good in country A versus country B.

Both scenarios describe a comparable and favorable result in which the local price signals of goods are conveyed free of the noise created by political intervention in the supply of money, while still affording central banks the ability to enact monetary policy to fulfill their mandate of stabilizing their respective economies.

In the scenario where central banks inflation target Bitcoin, it becomes comparable to the ICPI (Industrial Consumption Price Index) that in his works entitled Ideal Money, John Nash argued could be used as a central banking value target for the optimization of each nation’s money supply.

The ICPI is a decentralized array of regularly adjusted commodity prices. We observe that Bitcoin fulfills the necessary apolitical consideration that such an array of prices seeks to provide. Moreover, it addresses the necessity of a mechanism for regular adjustment, while avoiding the introduction of a political component.

This political component is avoided by the novelty of Bitcoin’s difficulty adjustment algorithm explained in the following quote:

The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost. If the price is below cost, then production slows down. If the price is above cost, profit can be made by generating and selling more. At the same time, the increased production would increase the difficulty, pushing the cost of generating towards the price.
The expected value of the instantaneous production and consumption of block header candidates is a price discovery of the costs required to produce a Bitcoin. This, in conjunction with the decentralized nature of mining, suggests a Bitcoin standard can serve as a perfect international basis for value stabilization not unlike gold standards observed in favorable economic times in our history.

Our proposal is that any changes to Bitcoin should be made with full consideration towards maintaining its ability to serve as a monetary policy basis comparable to a theoretical ICPI.
Do digital currency systems have any intrinsic value? Quote

      
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