That is almost exactly the troll behavior i have come to expect from you my friend merry Easter guy. Have a happy new trolling year is all i can say and not mean it but i do mean the other good wishes and if one means them you know that person will do whatever they can to make them true if it ever were up to them at any point to facilitate their realization.


There is no connection between any of this i said and that bubble mentioned. I didnt offer an investment plan on a coin company, only a wealth creation plan based on merit/effort. Just about the only connection is the word company maybe.

But if people are idiots and they cannot understand the concept and inevitability of scientific society in the face of rising global problems born out of endless moronic and unethical conflict they may yield to the concept of scientifically designed super company that becomes that society and doesn't milk the world like all current companies do but make it better instead for real while leading to prosperity all its members.

You did mention something about working hard and stuff, but since that has absolutely nothing to do with bitcoin at all and was such a general statement I decided it wasn't worth replying to specifically. It also has nothing to do with what I said.

You also mentioned, "But the chance it triples here eventually is probably better than the chance to go to 0 even if it sees 5000 first. This is how you buy it here and other currencies like it is going to prove instrumental to never panicking." That is the sort of analysis that I was responding to.

I do obviously like random side notes within conversations, but for the life of me I cannot ascertain what link you believe there is between what you are writing and bitcoin. For instance, it doesn't have anything to do with all of the bits I bolded above.

A "scientific society" wouldn't be wasting insane amounts of energy having computers do busywork to support a money transfer system that's slower and two orders of magnitude more expensive than mailing a check.

No need to exaggerate. It is only 90 times as expensive; not a full two orders of magnitude.

Unless the "coin" (a reworked version i proposed) would be the one giving you that very society.

The coin simply keeps track of progress delivered by its own existence.

Other than that makes absolutely no sense at all, I utterly agree.

Try to get from a) a coin with no intrinsic value that is transferred from one wallet to another by use of codes to calculate the solution to ever-increasingly difficult yet entirely uninteresting (perfectly solvable by brute force using simple and widely known arithmetic) cryptographic problems to z) creating any sort of society at all.

The rules of the solution require getting from a to z require a singular solution using 1) no more than 24 steps (no solution should require more) with 2) no logical leaps, 3) no logically possible alternatives to any of the steps, and 4) nothing that is counterfactual to the real world as it currently exists except as logical extensions (again, not just hand-wavey possibilities, but actual irrefutable logical corollaries) of previous steps in the proof.

I can clarify the rules further as needed and rule one is more of a guideline than a rule. As a wise man once said, "a theory should be as short as it can be, but no shorter." This should be an entertaining and good project for you. As per usual, I'll be the wonderful sort of guy who would be valued more than 10x his weight in scientists in a scientific society for doing the extremely hard work of attempting to poke holes in your theory.

I posted separately on the same post about bitcoin and what would replace it better. I dont see why that was not obvious.

I want to seriously study how to create a coin that will start scientific society by making those that work for it happy to work because of lucrative eventual gains and interesting current gains until it exponentially grows to a position that half the planet will be working for it part time. But the labor of this computation unlike current bitcoin will be delivering tangible computational value to major world problems that individual companies currently do not have the power to attack or the care for doing it without instant insane for them profits for little work at the back of the rest of the planet and the real workers.

Before you have a permanent solution you have an idea first. You will never have that idea with your trolling endless attitude and i will eventually. Always. And then i or someone like me that is not a negative endless troll will have its realization too.

Was it better than the free checking account that pays interest that we all already have?

I'm already happy to work for actual real coins that are currently in existence.

The rest is already available (other than that the exponential growth of a coin is a silly concept), since we can already volunteer to contribute our computing power if we choose to do so. Computing power isn't a bottleneck except for some fairly mundane tasks that involve mapping.

You mentioned that you had an idea. I'm asking you to work on it in a collaborative manner. An undeveloped idea is worthless. Hand-wavey ideas are even more worthless.

The answer is at absolute worst partially true or else you probably wouldn't have to ask the question in the first place. But the real answer is simply yes.

This is not how collaboration works. Rejection of everything is not collaboration.

You apparently do not imagine that there are complex problems out there that solve eg diseases or design better structures in chemistry (or strength of materials that eg lead to space elevators) or calculate complex efficient space orbits or even check simulation in plasma physics or whatever that take enormous computational power to deliver. It seems that there are endless problems that one can see if creative enough. AI would desire immense power to learn something fast for example.

If one can start and in 200 years has colonized and transformed the entire solar system with endless 1g habitats that top earth in designer beauty and generates now 10^6 more power than ever available on earth then you better believe it this is the mother of all exponentials.

Why would it be impossible for a creative self sustainable project to start expanding out and diversifying in everything that creates even stronger synergies and improves its survivability and growth if it capitalizes better the work of people that never got a proper chance. I can imagine 40% of young people in Greece would be a prime target for such plan actually. If one is unemployed and has skills that can be used in collaboration with others not in endless wasting value antagonism to create something that now offers value that didnt exist before then all these people own a great future in it.

If a coin that has better properties that bitcoin and that also generates some tangible value to society were produced it would behave better than a stupid checking account with 1% interest.

The main idea is that that of any successful company only better at more co-operational scale.

The first move is to make a list of things that would make a coin better than $ or E or whatever any government can seize on you for example over bs charges or errors or pure political reasons. How about a currency where all transactions that ever took place can be identified and studied but require immense computational power that only a legally authorized super big player can obtain after getting approval first from multiple agencies. That way nothing truly illegal in significant scale can happen that needs to be stopped over time but no hacker or individual players can use this in principle transparency to exploit others rendering >99.99% of transactions truly private forever.

If you want to collaborate make a list of things you would like to have in some currency that you do not get currently with $ or E. I am trying to build such list also.




Plus we all owe to read how bitcoin works 100% to be fair to any hope to beat it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140320...rg/bitcoin.pdf (Bruce gave me that link some time ago and i think you can find these and more in the wikipedia entry too)

Also older links that offer also some perspective from way back then before recent mania.

https://techcrunch.com/2013/04/08/how-to-mine-bitcoins/

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-b...nd-used-2013-4

Also when i speculated about its future i did that using my significant experience on previous and current stock market companies manias. They all have in common human nature of course and money flow mechanics.

The problems on all these manias is that its very hard to park money there if not done properly. Not only its almost true that investing today in all big overvalued by old fashioned methods (that can stil be correct though) names is a good idea even at these levels but anyone who does it with a big fraction of their money will be terrorized usually at some point and sell to stop losses disgusted or sell too early in profits. So designing a proper entry and exit strategy on all manias is very important. You need to be in some sense permanently invested and still have a lot of cash and re-positioning also over time to more new ideas while always taking profits at some level so that cash position is also exponentially growing. And you need to be employed and have a solid source of income to play the market properly usually.

You need to be entering gradually on all manias and taking profits at some point when the position becomes more than a certain fraction of your total. A proper simulation of how manias behave needs to be done also and develop a Kelly equivalent approach. But what i have described in some crude sense before how to do it (ie keeping that 10% position "forever" after 100% profits removed and never selling at a loss all your ideas and also redoubling if they crash at least one time if still positive). So i stand by my bitcoin buy for now and would be adding more if it made a new severe correction. Buying also the other smaller ones if they have some better design properties is a good idea on any correction. You only need one of them to win big really. But designing your own however audacious and difficult to take off is even better.

Is anybody selling software you can install on your PC that mines bitcoins for you? If not they're missing a bet.


PairTheBoard

See above links even if dated


https://techcrunch.com/2013/04/08/how-to-mine-bitcoins/

more recent

https://99bitcoins.com/beginners-guide-to-mining/

See more here and the endless links there

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining

or here


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_network#Mining

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining



"As a side note it’s important to state that in the past it was possible to mine Bitcoins with your computer or with a graphics card (also known as Graphical Processing Unit GPU) . Basically it's a chip put into a computer that needs to display resource intensive graphics (e.g. hardcore gaming). In the past people used the calculation ability of this chip to also mine Bitcoin.(GPU mining). Today however, the mining niche has become so competitive that you’ll need to use ASIC ie Application Specific Integrated Chip. A chip that was manufactured with the sole purpose of mining Bitcoins. ASIC miners – special computers built strictly for mining Bitcoins.." from second link.

yes.

In a scientific society, it is certainly how collaboration works.

What have you offered exactly in this thread in the name of collaboration, information and new ideas? A yes to a question without any links?

Or was it by talking about the South seas company that has absolutely no connection to anything i talked about.

The main premise of scientific society is to stop fighting over bs and contribute content instead.

Also to illustrate the scale of things

"A CPU core can execute 4 32-bit instructions per clock (using a 128-bit SSE instruction) or 8 via AVX (256-Bit), whereas a GPU like the Radeon HD 5970 can execute 3200 32-bit instructions per clock (using its 3200 ALUs or shaders). This is a difference of 800 (or 400 in case of AVX) times more instructions per clock. As of 2011, the fastest CPUs have up to 6, 8, or 12 cores and a somewhat higher frequency clock (2000-3000 MHz vs. 725 MHz for the Radeon HD 5970), but one HD5970 is still more than five times faster than four 12-core CPUs at 2.3GHz (which would also set you back about $4700 rather than $350 for the HD5970). "

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU...ter_than_a_CPU

By now ASIC is even better than this.

You've clearly never done actual science. People arguing over BS is central to the whole enterprise.

So if I installed this software on my plain old out of the box HP PC, how long would it take my PC running 24/7 to mine 1 Bitcoin?


PairTheBoard

^ your not really understanding the mining process, it's not a matter of time to mine a coin, it's the probability that you receive the coin that is distributed at any given time:
Bitcoins are created when computers solve complex arbitrary problems using a brute force mechanism. Every processes mining Bitcoin is in competition with each other to find the correct answer, the more guesses your processes has at the problem the more likely you are to get the answer right. Which every miner gets the problem correct recieves 50 coins and validates the latest block on the block chain. That processes also sets the next 'problem' and adds a further layer of complexity.

A single computer could be set to mine bitcoin but the chance of your receiving the 50 coin reward is basically 0. This is why you get farms of miners who all work together nd then of that far recieves the reward the 50 coins are distributed based on the number of cycles or 'guesses' each processing unit made in the mining process...
Hope this makes sense

Also harping back to the original strand of this thread and what the intrinsic value of something is..... The I transit value of anything is only what someone else will give you for it. Most here will have been to a casino.... Casino chips are currency within the casino, and have an I transit value, but that value only holds because the casino, or another punter is willing to give you the $value printed on them. If you take those chips outside the casino, they have no value, they cannot be exchanged for goods or services.....this is like a micro version of a startup currency, the difference being there is no regulating body (the casino) to validate the value of the chips.....
Imagine then if you will going to casino where there were a million pink chips with no markings..... You can only buy those pink chips from another punter and sell to another punter....they only have value within the casino, how much are the oink chips worth......well that completely depends on who holds them and who wants to buy them..... If loads of people want in to the casino the value will go up, if everyone wants to leave the value will go down...... The better the games within the casino, the better the environment, the nicer the staff, the better the casino the higher the value of the pink chips will be because more people want in.....

Bitcoin is a crap casino In this analogy, but it's the biggest the original and everyone has heard of it... Eventually it will be surpassed by better more modern equivalents.

In regard to bitcoin we can think of two possible end game scenarios:

1) Bitcoin continues to skyrocket and the citizens of respective national currencies migrate on mass to bitcoin until the legacy currencies drop to being effectively worthless in value and utility.

2) Central banks begin to inflation target bitcoin causing international stability among their currencies and in relation to bitcoin

In both situations we see, not a stability of purchasing power which is impossible to achieve, but the removal of the political influence in national (centrally banked) money supplies.

In both scenarios the price of a good in a given local area becomes a proper reflection of supply/demand.

Here's the future - bitcoin included:

Grunching all known knowledge... I do not see why governments can't develop their own blockchains and issue coins at a fixed 1:1 with their national currency ...rendering bitcoin's moonshot dream as implausible without major technical improvement.

However it's quite the conundrum for governments to consider offering a comparable value proposition in with respect to inflation rates. Bitcoin doesn't have to manage itself in regard to trade balances, nor is there any political pressure on its money supply (not that it would matter).

Governments are certainly launching their own crypto coins though, probably this years as most have been in testing for year or so already.

This will only serve to expedite the price/value discovery of bitcoin.