Wiki page.

I have difficulty w/ this bec I'd think that something infinitely dense could never fully disperse. If it were something like a volcano that stopped exploding when the pressure were relieved or if it's still exploding and will do so forever that would explain it. But I'd expect that either of those ought to have an observable effect on our universe.

If 'infinitely dense' is meant literally I'd like an explanation, if possible. If it's used just to mean 'dense beyond human comprehension' that would clear the matter up nicely.

Why is it important or interesting for you to know?

Just a thought about the origins of this conceptual pattern.

The idea that in the beginning(s) there is an "infinite" amount of matter present which in effect, spreads out" at the singularity such that there is no need to posit "more" matter as time progresses on.

Since "time" and "matter" are connected by Einstein as "time", in his presentation, is the 4th dimension "time" must have been present in this massive point focused pressure of an infinite variety.

All of this becomes a focus of attention due to the mandate that the "law of conservation of matter and energy" is believed factual. If there is no "new' input to our perceptual world then it had to be "infinite" which saves this particular law from being sent to the junk heap.

The operative word here is "infinite" which you, Howard, in effect call to question. They really could have said that the amount of "matter" then is equal to the amount of matter and energy present today but since the universe is "infinite" the matter present then had to present with infinite power.

I say lol to this but will attempt to conceive of the idea of "infinite" with the mathematical concepts at our disposal.

In the world of "projective geometry" there is a concept to which the linearity of our world can be conceptualized to a circular basis. As we sit in the center point of the universe, or earth, or anywhere we look to the right and look to the left and what we are immersed in is a large circular geometry. The center of the circle so far away that we are not linear but see that the linearity as the foundation to which we sit, appears straight and in fact our fixed dimensional approach is a lesser projection of the circlar geometry, somehow ala Last card Charlie, thanx.

There is more for this leads to the idea that if one proceeds out along the right side of the supposed linearity then one would come back from the other side, the left. Not only do we come back from the left but the "qualities" of our journey have changed . This means that the point quality has changed as per example from the blue to the red realm.

This "infinity", in actuality becomes "closed" upon itself and gives a different idea of what the "infinitists" call infinity . This is of course a conceptual idea of what and how our world makeup presents and would have to be considered within the light of present scientific percepts and concepts.

One look at this is the "rainbow" which modern science, some, not all, calls an illusion. Consider that as one travels along the "warmth" portion of the spectrum (red, yellow,etc.) and proceeds to the left we come to the "cold" portion of the rainbow ( blues, violets etc..) which is to our right.

You'll have to imagine the colors in the appropriate positions with green in the middle .Since this is "projective geometry" consider that there is a "break" in the line, so to speak, and we enter a realm of color with "peach blossoim" as its salient feature but counterpoised with other colors, in progression, to our perceptible rainbow.

As you may well have imagined we enter the realm of non materiality which is really the same as our thinking for it carries us to this "other realm". Thinking as a supersensible activity to which we are all capable of.


Due to time constraints I couldn't find the picture with all the colors so you'll have to fill in the blanks .Thanx.



http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA3...s/heat0902.gif

http://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA...0120502m.gif+2

I read the science books written for laymen. I think that I 'get it' for the most part even though they've been dumbed down for people like me so my understanding is limited to some extent. I don't get an infinite initial singularity so I ask the question.

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Tx, carlo, for the effort. I'll have to read that over a few times.

Infinitely Dense would be an excellent name for a Guinness-type Imperial Stout.

FYP

Aren't you looking for "tripe".

" Most often the first three stomachs of a cow or an ox are used. When the first of the bovine's stomach is used, it is called blanket tripe (due to its appearance); when the second—and usually most coveted—is prepared, it is known as honeycomb tripe; and when it is the third stomach, it is called bible or book tripe."

Basically only the older, more advanced peoples can savor tripe which is a delicacy in Italy and France.

Tripe juice is good for a hangover, tripe increases libido and the best "wrap your head in tripe with a swimming cap for a cure for hair loss"

How to cook and prepare tripe.

https://www.thespruce.com/what-is-tripe-435436

Some do speak with their negativity about tripe and express it so, but the condemnation of tripe without reason,purpose or comprehension is a tripeless affair.

The largest is in the smallest, just as infinity is encased within the finite.

The concept of infinity is too loosely thrown around, there isn’t consensus that black holes or the Big Bang singularity are/we’re infinitely dense, but there is consensus that our physics as we know and can describe things breaks down when we approach those limits.

Eternal inflation with bubble universes gets around this or is at least an interesting rabbit hole to go down. I like hearing Alan Guth and others speak on that topic as it raises some interesting concepts like virtual particals during early inflation being pulled away from their pairs so fast that they can’t annihilate and actually become something.

You cannot concern yourself with before the big bang.... Time was created at the big bang, it is just a dimension...to therefore talk about something before this 'big bang' us meaningless....the singularity before the big bang, didn't exist, because there was no time for it to exist within...
In terms of the 'singularity' at the centre of a black hole: not infinitely dense....

You can't combine time and matter irrespective of the fourth dimension of Einstein. These things are not "just dimensions" to poo poo to display your wit and wisdom. You don't have to know the before for time is in another realm without mass and not dependent or a function of.

The real questions are:

What is matter (mass) ?

What is time ?

Here's something to consider, the formula for velocity is :

velocity= distance / time

This is an abstraction and if we understand that Man is within the realm we study we do not maintain that Man has a "sense of distance" as sense of sight, taste, etc..

Also Man does not have a "sense of time" as above.

This is no way obviates the ability of an individual to estimate both time and distance within one's life.

Man does have a sense of velocity or to be clearer a "sense of movement". this sense is called the kinesthetic sense . One can sense the movement of arms, legs and even the movement of thought in a chain of thoughts in thinking. Velocity is the wrong term, made a function of space and time,and substituted for "movement".

Now about space and time, it can and is said that Man is "ensconced within space and time". I'll repeat, space and time are Man as he "floats within space and time".

By understanding this one can see that "time" and "space" cannot be objectified unless the human being "leaves time and space" for he is time and space. One cannot observe one's self unless that person enters a higher realm which is spaceless at first and then even higher for entry into the timeless or the realm of "duration".

This is the realm of the supersensible (multilayered) to which Man enters into with thoughts and thinking. This realm does not have an infinite destroying and cataclysmic mass .

My post above questions these concepts for they are all based upon mass as "weight" or "pressure"; a one sided affair in which we all will clagg into the garbage heap of a decadent decomposition.

You can easily concern yourself with things happening before the big bang. Look, I'm doing it right now.

On what basis are you certain there is nothing beyond the observable universe (/the universe that's been banged into existence)?

How do you know this universe isn't just a localised bang, with infinite non-local bangs elsewhere? Time doesn't have to exist without a bang, but this doesn't mean there aren't other bangs elsewhere.

Is it coincidental that banging is fun?

Bang a Gong, slowly.

Tenderly.

We don't know. Maybe not.

https://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-qu...-universe.html

It was not big and it was not a bang.

I am surprised by the whole spiritual view of time that seems to be harboured here:
Time is nothing but a quantifiable measure of transition through a dimension. We can quantify other dimensions and measure our transition through them using metre sticks, for time we can do the same with a stop watch but have no choice in the direction....but this is wholely obvious, because if you have only one dimension of time then it's existence has to be uni and omi directional simultaneously.
Regardless of this, just as planks length can be defined as a length smaller than which no length exists, plank time works in the same way. It exists as 'quanta' of time if you will.
'before' the big bang there were no time 'quantums' just as within a black hole there is no time. If the amount of space time a quanta ecorporates is reduced to zero it no longer exists because that dimension has been collapsed.

Velocity or expressly the speed of light is fundamental property that expresses the rate at which we can transition through our dimensions, 1second is defined by the distance light can travel in that time, the metre is defined by how far light travels in a given time, these are properties bases on the rate that photons traverse our 3 dimensions, they can travel at c, because they are not traverseing time.

Mass is the property of a quanta that is effected by gravity.....gravity is....well if you can answer that then there is a noble prize waiting for you.....best approximation In my opinion comea from general relativity, although I am bias to relativity, I just like it.

A good discussion, sparked by a question about his book, "The First Three Minutes". Starts around 15:00.

Because there is a finite amount to which you can divide time or space, does not mean time and space only exist as far as the furthest light we see.

Apart from the practical reason of assuming there's nothing beyond the furthest bit of sunlight, what other reason is there? Is another reason even needed? The answer to the second question will determine your beliefs on this.

And for all intents and purposes, if no observer could ever observe what's beyond the furthest light then it's simply irrelevant. This is the consensus opinion as far as I know. It doesn't mean it's right. It's just more "scientific"...and people like to view themselves as being "scientific".

The first three minutes start about 15 minutes in? So that's how time works.


PairTheBoard

Big Bang? You mean that thing that allegedly happened when this stuff appeared outa nowhere, in the middle of dark nowhere/nothing, reacted with each other and then made this other stuff that in turn made even more stuff that eventually turned into living & communicating things that continue to make even more stuff to this day?

Where did the original stuff that created this "Big Bang" come from again?

Lol, sounds as legit as #FlatEarth bro

LOL Science and its Oblate Spheroids n stuff

What does the '#' stand for?

No idea, cyber nerds do it all the time. Far as I can tell its like a exclamation mark but backwards...or something like that

Stupid nerds

#BoboFett2017

So stuff appeared out of nowhere which led to other stuff which led to '#' as a thing. Got it.

We just discovered what it means to be infinitely dense.