http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...for-alien-life

but we still know so little I am skeptical this can work. suppose we do pick up a strange signal how do we conclude that it is in fact advanced technology and not some obscure thing from the nature of space that we do not understand?

could we actually sat pick up there tv channels and get a picture playing I doubt it.

I mean say we pick up a series of prime numbers ok it could be aliens but then maybe its something to do with psychics that we have not discovered yet which under certain conditions releases a pattern which follows prime numbers.

maybe not but would be pretty cool to intercept an alien TV show.

maybe a good space sitcom.

I'd prefer a movie. One where Earthlings invade their planet and they fight them off.

can't we all just get along?

No.

We can. We just have to get rid of those that cant get along and are nasty about it or change them or render them irrelevant.

Not getting along is very important to progress. But being aholes about it is something different war was born for.



The favorite sci fi joke movie would be to invade a planet in order to take it over from the others and prove that both sides are selfishly pathetic about it and while fighting it out suddenly they find out they both have a new enemy, a 3rd advanced AI entity that is very lethal and they can only stop it by cooperating.

After successfully cooperating to survive and defeat that AI the newly found appreciation and gratitude for the effort both sides made allows a better future coexistence.

The 3rd entity then reappears, although initially seen defeated, back in amazingly powerful presence as if nothing was ever lost for it, to declare to both; "And this is how we learn...You can thanks us later..."

A 4th entity then appears to scream to the 3rd entity. Time for dinner Timmy! Stop playing with your toys, you still havent finished your homework!

We can get along quite well, like the Huns and the Europeans got along.

Maybe as well as various species we have already met currently get along.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9nmqViKOwE

The Prime Directive "non interference" theory means it's possible we are in a transitional "lone planet" galactic isolation phase. Then few to no humans would meet the 'Alien Federation'. Popular culture has been a method making the idea of Aliens familiar and palatable to stubborn, fearful, egotistical humans across generations. Perhaps because the aliens can determine we will eventually develop becoming capable of seeing and meeting them some time (decades, a century?) after making it past nuclear development as a species.

Cliffs: Science fiction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxhrPaaCA4

http://www.space.com/29683-why-arent...ing-earth.html

One (I think obvious) possibility that never seems to get mentioned is that we aren't in a matrix type situation but any sufficiently intelligent species would chose to be.

The 'real' world contains such a small subset of the interesting and good stuff that once you get clever enough it's really not worth bothering with.

Counter: A sufficiently intelligent species would be satisfied with a rocking chair.

Well he is claiming you will be able to simulate that chair and add to it all imaginable kinds of vistas, music , whatever pleasing environments, good food, company and other joys not yet imagined even without leaving your own solar system. Or you may not even need to simulate, you can create it locally for real using only local resources as i have been saying we will do eventually here in this system.

So we need to create an argument that the quality of the internal world created depends on external resources that become more interesting at galactic level still requiring expansion or investigation. However it may turn out that you do not need to locally visit a place and you can remotely extract what you want from it at a very low pace way that is not locally perceived but over the entire universe added up gives that civilization all it needs and many times over. I mean we might be accelerating in expansion as a result of someone having too much fun in another galaxy. Ok that is heavy sci fi bs likely but its an argument for investigation of such possibilities until Physics can show its not doable that way.

Perhaps the answers to such future investigations are unnecessary. Perhaps finding balance in one's own life, regardless of the state of the universe, or the state of technology, or the galaxy within which you reside, is more important?

Perhaps finding the truth - out there - is entirely unimportant?

Perhaps whatever state of the universe you're born into, it is finding the balance in your life/existence, that is more relevant. Perhaps I need to read even more on Eastern thought.

No that is the lazy approach to wisdom that ancient Greeks would not endorse and they would be right of course. You need to go out there and explore things up close because this is going to enrich your internal world and imagination by giving it further examples of experiences. You cannot have potent happiness without advanced science and technology. It will be a vulnerable happiness founded on naivete. You just have to take care of your internal worlds, to be cultured/educated and virtuous so that this science and technology wont be a distraction from the truly important but a server/facilitator of the process of wisdom. knowledge should liberate you from inferior desires and priorities not enslave you to trivial things (often done in the west eg within money culture making eastern thinking appealing).

I may be wrong but it seems to me eastern philosophies minimize the value/importance of the individual. I much rather have a concept of a strong active human that aims at higher complexity always, than one who is careless and resigned satisfied with little. You should learn to be self sufficient and not require excesses, you must be able to be happy even in a spartan lifestyle if needed, but you still need to be able to want more because the universe is inviting you to play with it. That is the real message. Engage me is the message. Help me explore where it can all go...

I am not ignoring eastern ideas though. I instead take the message of humility and deeper connection with the universe evidenced in eastern philosophies to mean precisely this; An invitation to recognize i am not indeed the center of the universe. I am just one step in a greater process that leads to more interesting things. I celebrate my existence by becoming the father of that higher complexity which will be capable of further awareness and wisdom not accessible to myself. That has got to be the most interesting combination of humility and confidence ever. It is my version of a truly strong human that derives strength from recognizing their role into higher complexity.

My problem is precisely that I'm curious.

I feel I've read too much about the ancient Greeks, compared to anything on Eastern thought. So what's a curious person to do?

Are you recommending the suppression of curiosity and the promotion of tunnel vision? based on your own readings of Eastern thought, or based on an indoctrinated and dogmatic view on Western thought?

All I see 'out there' is endless questions and endless answers. What I see 'within' however, is factors within my control and within my lifetime. I don't view my life and subjective experience as somehow inferior to the answers 'out there' either. Perhaps you do, to some extent.

It's still referred to as 'eastern thought'? Didn't they practice Tai Chi in Star Trek TNG?

What about that book the Tao of Physics?

Let's consider this.

If you believe in scientific determinism, then you believe the universe is going to unfold in a manner it was going to unfold since the big bang.

If I concentrate on finding a balance in my own life, instead of looking for 'the truth', humanity will still advance, and the universe will still enter into more advanced or complex states anyway.

So what does it matter if I choose to not look for the truth out there? and rather look for balance in my own life, and by extension give happiness to those around me, and by extension 'contribute' in a different way - but perhaps more meaningful way...?

Perhaps a small contribution to others' happiness goes further to the achievement of these complex states in the universe (e.g., a mother's unconditional love) than any single equation that describes any complex phenomena?

And perhaps at the end of all this, the achievement of the complex states is entirely unimportant, and it is the initial pursuit of balance in one's life that has all the importance?

A mother's love is unimportant if in the end if it doesnt secure the presence of itself and even higher forms of love in the future. That seems to be possible only with higher awareness and wisdom. I am not minimizing simple things and pleasures and human emotions. I am aiming to enrich understand and preserve them and explore even higher future versions of them.

A mother's love is impossible without the cell advancing to more complex states hundreds of millions of years earlier. Isnt that message? That beauty emerges by engaging the complexity ladder.

Also the search for truth in your own life derives strength from further wisdom accumulated.

Sure, but the complexity ladder was already engaged before I rocked up here, and it will likely continue regardless of whether I'm here.

So why prioritise the 'out there' over the 'in here'?

You enhance both. Its not a matter of priority (although it may be in certain things too) but balance. In fact balance will lead to better priorities.

The process of wisdom depends on the individual. Without that sense of self importance its easier for the overall culture to evolve into a state of decay where everyone is involved in selfish projects expecting the others will do it instead until the emerging unnoticed conflicts collapse the system.

Yes i anticipate greatness in a variety of forms from every human that lived. This is my message. In so many other threads i have hinted that i see it all as interacting and participatory in a greater process.

Happy you used the word 'balance' as it seems like a keyword in Eastern thought I've read so far.

If that balance consists of balancing my work life with my personal life and I find a balance that sustains my happiness then that is just as meaningful as if that balance consisted of balancing my dedication to finding truth out there, and to finding truth within. Which is just as meaningful as balancing my intake of junk food against my time spent exercising.

I am wondering whether you would view these as equally meaningful scales upon which to seek balance? or do you believe one or more of these scales to be less meaningful than another?

The point I am trying to convey really, is that no matter where the balance is found/sustained, it is the balance that is important, not the domain or the scale upon which two ends are being balanced.