Crazy that BB could protect him that well and make it that easy for him.

Good call.

Probable (Right shoulder)

Would people who voted for Belichick change their votes now that Brady had his insane comeback in the superbowl?

Or do you still give credit to Belichick for molding players like Brady, Edelman into who they are and putting in defensive coordinator like Patricia and his players who made sure ATL didn't score any more points?

if anything the super bowl proved how valuable having a non stillborn as a coach is

538 looked at with some sketchy data. they conclude (I think?) that Brady is a bit more responsible for the Pats success than BB.

of course the Either/Or argument is doomed from the start. they are both historically great at what they do, and splitting up the final 10% of credit is, for now, impossible

Put another way, your favorite team gets to take one of Belichick or Brady in his prime. Which do you want? Some teams will have a non-dud qb or coach and that decision will be made for them. But for the others?

Even more interesting:

You have to take and play a combo package. The package is:

Belichick and Blaine Gabbert.

Brady and Jeff Fisher.

I'll take Brady and Fisher, Fisher did coach in a Superbowl and very well could have won one the following year. Great HC/avg QB is a lot worse then a great QB/avg HC.

Just look at Peyton's rings versus Brady's rings. That's the difference between elite QB with a great coach versus QB with an average one.

I would take Belichick and Gabbert.

Stupidity reigns supreme.

Man, I couldn't even imagine the brutal 1 score losses that would stock pile if Gabbert was the QB for BB.

These poll results are stunning to me. Best QB > best coach

QB is so important in the modern NFL. It isn't like Brady is the only guy winning year after year, Rodgers and Manning both were in the hunt every single year. Unless the team is complete AIDS, you just have such a high floor from having an elite top level generational talent at QB like Brady. I'm not sure any coach can give you that type of value.

I think if you asked all 31 other GM's/owners who they would rather have BB or Brady for 15 years that most would say Brady. Stability at the QB position is just that important.

Pats went 11-5 the Cassel year with basically the same talent on offense that went 16-0 the year before and they had 1 of the easiest schedules in the league that year. They lost to most of the good teams they played. Way too much gets made of that.

how do you quantify that part of the value of having a belichick is you don't end up playing guys like gabbert

Brady is more valuable than Belichick if you had to choose one for one year

Belichick has been more valuable for the Patriots than Brady over the last 17 years, and Brady is insanely good

You definitely add in Belichick's value as a personnel guy/czar to the question. Obviously don't just limit it strictly to his coaching.

Also you have to think who they could've got to replace Brady, let's say from 2005 to 2015. Let's say other than Peyton Manning. Was there a consistently great QB? Or perhaps you can get 2 or 3 for those years in this scenario. I haven't followed NFL much so I'm genuinely asking

Not saying Brady is underrated but he has carried some pretty marginal teams in terms of talent. You put another QB in his spot in years like '05, '06, '09, '13 and I think the offense is much worse. It just so happens that the year he got hurt the Pats had an easy schedule and a still-prime Randy Moss.

But there have been other years where someone kills 2 people before the season, Gronk is hurt, the team can't run the ball, the OL is average at best where he is just carrying them to a top 5 offense. I know people will say BB is a part of that, but BB alone has never been able to carry the defense to being a top unit. Infact, the Pats have had several years where their secondary just blew. Particularly from '08-12 after Asante Samuel left and before they got Aqib Talib. People forget this stuff now cause 5 rings but I don't know how many DB picks NE whiffed on. A lot of these don't get magnified or noticed when you've got an elite QB that never gets hurt.

To me the answer is clearly BB and I don't think it's remotely close.

He is clearly the best coach in the league, arguably the best gm, and has standards as high as any NFL coach possibly ever (Lombardi?).

Does anyone here believe Brady gets more than 1 ring with any other team? I also feel that if you replace Brady with any top 10 qb the pats still ship 3.

Look at Jim Harbaugh who imo was the clear 2nd best Coach in the NFL during his time in the NFL. His first 3 seasons ended in appearances in NFCCG, SuperBowl, NFCCG. 3 great seasons but never won it all.

Then the much talked about topic on this site is about how all the top QB's are held back by their coaches. Rodgers got 1 superbowl win/appearance. Manning 2 and 2.

The reason the Pats have had such prolonged high end success isnt because of Brady or Belichick. Its because of Brady and Belichick. Perfect storm of the Best QB of all time being on the team with the Best coach of all time.

Patriots are 14-6 when Brady is hurt/suspended. BB was 36-44 while coaching the Browns, obviously without Brady.

Both deserve a deeper explanation, but having a great QB won't win you 5 SBs nor will having even the GOAT coach/GM. They needed each other. Peyton, Rogers, Marino, Montana, etc. etc. likely see about the same success +/- a RANG if you swap them. Swap BB for Fisher or Dungy, Brady probably gets a ring or two.

That said, the distance between BB and his contemporaries is >>>>>>x10^9>>>>> than the distance between Brady and his, even if you assume there is some.

Because the 9ers have been the epitome of excellence since Harbaugh left

harbaugh getting that much success out of kaepernick is a huge point towards the coaching side

it's a great question. 17 years of Belichick + league avg. QB you probabaly don't win a SB. 17 years of Brady + league avg (or worse) head coach and you definitely have >1 SB EV.

having said that, Brady + the 5th best head coach (who is that even?) for 17 years lands you around 1.5 SBs I think. Belichick + 5th best QB (say 2016 WILson) wins you more than that over 17 years

I think my 2-5 in head coaches in some order are Sean Payton, Pete Carroll, Bruce Arians, and Mike Zimmer. (and honestly, Adam Gase had the Dolphins looking so much better than they ever did under Philbin that if he keeps it up next year he's gonna be knocking on the door here).

Maybe I'm partial to guys who had to wait too long to get their shot because they're blunt and honest in interviews instead of ass-kissers

Lol at thinking any coach is more valuable than one of the best QBs and on-field leaders of all time. It's not even close.

Brady is the one throwing passes to the revolving cast of mediocre receivers. He's the one turning journeyman WRs into all-pros. He's 39 and just threw 28 TDs vs. 2 INTs in 12 games in the regular season. He completed 67.4% of his passes. Those numbers are off the charts good. Belichik is a good coach but he ain't the one throwing the ball.