cassel is on the titans?

They won the same amount of Super Bowls in both those seasons though

that's a really good point, I hadn't considered that

Answer is obviously Belichick. Brady is nothing more than a system cheater. Any replacement level QB can step into the Pats offense and provide enough cheating to carry them to a winning record.

Labron - 0 titles before teaming up with wade. Waid- 1 titles without Labron. Waid: GOAT?

Belichick: 51-65 record without Brady. Record with Brady: 136-39. Bardy: GOAT?

2001: patriots 0-2 without Brady. 14-3 with Brady as starting quarterback. Bardy: GOAT OAT? Or just GOAT?

If this question was asked after last season, Brady would probably be leading. (rather than 3-0 without him)

Oh no!! You mean you to tell me that bill b can't win with ME at qb??!!??

Watching Patsfan try to craft an argument so BB & Brady can both be the unquestionable GOAT is always amusing. The easy answer is they're both amazing at what they do but also both make the other look better.

Peyton would have been Peyton no matter where he went (he won 14 games and went to a SB with a roster that was the worst team in the league without him two years later, then turned a below avg offense and 5 pythag win team into the best offense of all time within two seasons). He was never fortunate enough to play with a coach on his or even near his level. Brady & BB have benefitted immensely from each other though.

The biggest strength of BB is he knows you can't have an ego to be great and you always have to adapt to your teams skill sets. You see it all the time, but so many coaches think there's a certain way a team has to play, a QB has to play, etc, and tries to force it on his team regardless of the personnel. Not BB. Over the years the Pats have taken so many different identities. And that, imo, helped Bradys growth curve a ton. Early on (01-03), BB knew the Pats D was their strength and Brady was still green, so the Pats system was a simple low variance one- run heavy, with play actions and easy throws. As the years went on (~04-09), Brady got better, much better than expected, the offensive talent around Brady improved, and the D got worse, so the playbook expanded and the offense was more in Bradys hands. Since Moss' departure and Gronks arrival the Pats haven't really had much on the outside- keeping with the trend BB/Brady built a system where their WRs became largely replaceable, running lots of quick routes and screens, with their counters being TE seams and posts that play off those quick hits.

BB probably wouldn't have emerged as the GOAT coach had Bledsoe not got hurt, but Brady would not be a GOAT candidate if he was drafted by another team either. I don't mean to take away anything they've done, they both have built GOATish resumes, I just think they're unique in that they are both kinda reliant on the other.

Tl;dr cliffs: who cares, they're both awesome

kraft, too

man if the pats can get to 4-0 with literally edelman at qb it's clearly BB and not close

Brissett now has a thumb injury so this might actually happen

People bringing up Belichick's Brown's record -

Are you assuming that people who argue BB is the GOAT to mean that BB is the GOAT from day 1? Obviously, he's going to suck with a bad team and no head coaching experience. As he gained more experience as a coach, he kept getting better and when Kraft handed him the complete power over personnel he turned into a beast.

This.

BB is the GOAT. No one is disputing that.

This 15 year run that the pats are on is unprecedented Bc they managed to have the GOAT coach combined with an all time great QB. Those who seriously think Brady is a BB product (very few honestly believe that I'd imagine) are just nuts.

pretty sure Brady goes 0-160 as a Brown, not even debatable really

Nope. Not at all debatable.

/discussion

switch romo to patriots n brady to cowboys in the early years and we'd be talking about romo being the GOAT

BB went 11-5 & won a playoff game with Testaverde at QB (Mark Rypien also started 3 games), Leroy Hoard as his leading rusher (890 yards), Derrick Alexander (828 yards) & Mark Carrier (452 yards) as his leading receivers, & a defense led by Pepper Johnson, Rob Burnett, Eric Turner & Stevon Moore.

He's clearly always been GOATish (despite the whole losing seasons in 5 of his first 6 years thing).

Has this ever actually been a question?

schu's drunk posts keep getting earlier and earlier. you ok man?

Also, it was Jim McCoy and Will Herndon.

Something I've been discussing a lot recently with people is that BB is only 64 years old. Tom Coughlin is 70 and seems to have already died and come back as a zombie.

I think BB has another 10 years left in the league.

He may have a second chapter that is even more ridiculous.