Sure. but the point I've been making is that Brady is the same guy, it's the other guys that have changed, and as a result all his stats look better. Is this an outlier year for Brady, or an outlying "personnel year"?

keep in mind this will probably go down when defensive adjustments are at full strength

k, I'll do that. same terms as above? I pay you $50 if Manning ends up with a higher DPAR and DVOA, otherwise you pay me?

also, double protection? the bet is void if Brady OR Manning fails to start at least 15 games.

It's a deal. Honor system (gulp) and PokerStars transfer works for me, but a different setup is fine too, if you prefer.

Also, I'm assuming that we're just looking at passing DVOA/DPAR (which includes sacks, of course), yes? Neither of these guys make their living scrambling or running QB draws, so it would probably just amount to filtering out statistical noise to ignore their rushing stats.

Little of both, I'm betting. Manning's basically been putting up the greatest QB stats ever the past few years. Going to be a very tall order for Brady to match, even with the greatly improved supporting cast. I guess this is mostly a bet about how responsible the QB and his receivers are, respectively, for success in the passing game.

Ignoring Salary cap

Giants trade:
Eli Manning
Jeremy Shockey
Osi Umenyiora
Next 2 first round draft picks

Giants wouldn't do it, but I think New England would be crazy not to

Does that deal include the option to shoot Shockey with a cannon?

to or from take your pick

Osi's a bad fit for their 3-4. He can't play end in their system, and he's no OLB.

Brad Pitt is the only one who comes close.

Stars transfer is cool by me.

yes

gl!

okay, Mathias Kiwanuka then

although I think you make a spot for a guy like Osi

So brady is worth 7 first rounders, but Randy Moss is worth a 4th rounder?

Well, Randy Moss (in hindsight) is worth more than a 4th rounder, but jeez, stud QB's are so goddamn important in the NFL.

looooooooooooooooooooool. I wouldn't do it if you offered me that and I was the Patriots. Ofcourse, this is considering the depth that the Patriots already have in defense and so on. But that's still a pretty bad trade.

Maybe, but he's worth a lot more to the Giants than to the Patriots. I would think the players who would be of the most use to the Patriots would be Antonio Pierce and Chris Snee and/or Kareem MacKenzie (I'm not totally up on the Pats' O-line situation).

Likewise.

Brady's been sacked 3 times all year. And Sammy Morris is averaging 5 YPC.

Sammy Morris was a **** beast vs San Diego.

Yeah, I know they're doing a fine job as a group. I just mean that RG Chris Snee and RT Kareem MacKenzie could start for the vast majority of teams, but I don't know if they're better than what the Pats have at those positions.

Pats wouldn't trade Brady even if he impregnated both Mr. and Mrs. Kraft in the same bed...

A Jimmy Garps or a Nick Foles, straight up