Is there another reason why muscular men trigger you or was my earlier guess correct?

more cherry-picking bullshit

Before Phil arrived, MJ was already nearly beating the Bad Boys and only lost the 89' ECF because Pippen effectively missed Games 5 and 6.

People don't realize that Pippen's first "migraines" were in the 89' ECF, not 1990.. Phil's loss in 1990 was excused due to the "migraine", but Collins actually experienced a far worse version of Pippen in 89' and got fired.

Regarding off-ball - MJ was always off-ball, which is why Phil thought the triangle could work in the first place - he thought that MJ's game could turn the little-known triangle into a winner.. Obviously, if MJ was a Luka or Lebron-style ball-dominator, Phil would never have thought to run the triangle - it's clear that those guys wouldn't tolerate it and their skillset couldn't dominate playing that way.

And you've obviously heard the stories of people saying Jordan scored too much and that's why his teams didn't win early on, but that's the narrative that was proven wrong - he scored just as much while winning titles and it turns out that everyone grew by leaps and bounds alongside him and had great fits... But again, he was incorrectly knocked early on and had to prove everyone wrong - he was already doing this by 88', and of course the historic 89' run with upsets in every round and nearly beat the Bad Boys with no help.. The Bulls were the only team to win any games off the Pistons in the 89' Playoffs and they had a real chance to beat them if Pippen doesn't quit in Games 5 and 6 - he played 1 minute in Game 6.
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And Lebron wasn't the 1st option in 2020, although some people would debate that, just like people debate Kobe/Shaq in 01' and 02'.

When the actual scoring of both guys is close and within a few PPG, it could go either way - both guys have stretches of being "that guy" and taking over the game.

Regardless, this kind of tag team and equal scoring loads is nowhere near MJ, who always carried the scoring load at an unprecedented GOAT level, while playing GOAT defense too.

Btw, in the 2001 and 2002 WCF, many people thought Kobe was the best player and Shaq was a big liability down the stretch - that's where 'hack-a-shaq'; was born.. I'll give Shaq 2000, but 01' and 02' were debateable - and no one cared about those Finals - they were a foregone conclusion - it didn't matter what the Lakers did.. And we know for a fact that if Kobe doesn't cheat and break Bibby's nose, the Lakers lose the 02' WCF - Kobe cheated like 8 times to win that series - Shaq wasn't willing to do that - mamba mentality won that series.

If a guy never had a stretch where his team mostly won, and only had stretches where his team mostly lost, then he's a perennial loser.

Sure it's true that Lebron hasn't lost as much as Westbrook or Harden, but the reality is that their style and prime numbers compare well to Lebron's, so the only difference is that Lebron teamed up with opposing franchise players and they didn't (at least not in their primes)..

Who can't go 2/4 with Wade and Bosh?... Who can't go 1/5 with AD or Love?..... this is not impressive for someone that everyone says is #2 all-time.. And you'll counter by bragging about Lebron putting the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team so he could guarantee Finals berth........ but all those extra manufactured chances (10 chances) and still only 4 chips?

History shows that Lebron has a lottery record on the championship level regardless of cast - that's his team ceiling - the best teams Lebron can produce are the "Pistons" of the Finals.. If we made a league that included all the Finals teams from past seasons, Lebron's teams would be the worst team in the league (worst Finals record ever - 22-33 overall).
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Btw Fidstar, I told you there are "giveaway" games like the Nuggets tonight or the Knicks in Game 3 of 93' ECF

You've got excuses and double standards for everything.

If prime LeBron ever lost a play-off game by 45 points you would never shut up about what a huge loser he is and bring it up at every opportunity.

But because your narrative is that Jokic > LeBron you give him a pass.

Why isn't Jokic included in your list of "perennial losers"? He has one ring in nine years.

Lebron mostly won 2011-2013 or 2012-2014.

I've never cared about margin of loss in any 1 game.. Otoh, I do criticize when someone gets destroyed by a wide margin specifically because they shot 36%, or losing by record amount with 2 all-star teammates, the preseason favorite and even odds entering the series.




KAT is averaging 18/9/3 on 60 TS in this series, while playing great defense on Jokic, so how is Ant not EASILY WINNING with this help?

Ant also has the GOAT defender with Gobert, and "length" everywhere according to Lebron - this is more help than MJ ever had, yet Ant is barely beating the Nuggets.. And the Nuggets have a garbage roster outside of Jokic, so they don't compare to the teams that Jordan faced!!

So I don't mind if Ant beats the Nuggets and makes the Finals because he's obviously vastly inferior to MJ, which confirms how much MJ would dominate today's league.. Most people think he would average over 40 ppg, while Ant didn't even have a 20 PER this year.... In the current series, he's only averaging 29.7 despite his team averaging 103.5 (28.7% of team points) - that doesn't compare to MJ.

He's only 9 years in and he already won with less, aka a "normal" organic cast of 1 franchise player, while Lebron needed 3 franchise players (super-team).

My theory is that players who achieve all-time dominance (aka 30 PER) with a low hold-time style - they have the highest team ceilings/Finals records (Curry, MJ, Duncan).

I expect Jokic to join this group, especially if he actually gets some real help.

Lebron won 2 in 4 with that Miami cast - that's the BEST he's ever done with a cast, smh.. He never proved that he could mostly win for a stretch like Duncan winning 3 in 5 years, or Curry won 3 in 4, or Jordan won 6 in 7 - that's mostly winning and having dominant dynasties, while 21 years confirms that Lebron isn't capable of mostly winning with any cast or having a dynasty or 3-peat with any cast, aka objectively inferior to MJ.

Lebron won 3 in 5 years (12, 13, 16), while finishing 2nd the other 2 years. That's a better 5-year stretch than MJ ever managed (the most he won in a 5-year stretch is 3 titles and obviously he never got to the Finals in the other two years in any 5 year stretch that includes 3 titles) and also better than Duncan's best 5 year stretch (3 titles in 5 years, but only got to conference semi's the other 2 years. Only Curry can match this (3 titles in 5 years with 2 other Finals appearances).

Also, sounds like no one answered this:

The answer is 9 games. In other words, MJ didn't miss a season and half of NBA basketball primarily because of baseball - he missed them primarily because he didn't want to play basketball.

Honest question: should Pippen, Phil, and Rodman be in the Hall of Fame?

That was nice of you to give it to Shaq the year he was 1 vote away from being the unanimous MVP.

2001 - Shaq 3rd MVP. Kobe 9th. 578 votes to 11.
2002 - Shaq 3rd, Kobe 5th. 696 votes to 98.

Any other interpretation than Shaq was the man for the Lakers 3-peat is dumb.

I assume you thought Warriors gave away Game 6 in 2016. Worked out well.

MJ's baseball career was also cool because we got to find out that MJ's a great athlete, but not that great:

https://blog.29sunset.com/2020/05/ho...an-really.html

Also more on young MJ:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...mment/d65rpe0/

No idea where/when/if Magic said this about MJ but this matches up with my recollection and also sounds like Magic.

To avoid an arbitrary cutoff, we can use a point system and look at this for best N-year stretches for each player:

6 for championship
4 for conference championship
2 for conference finals appearance
1 for conference semis appearance

Best 3 year stretch
MJ: 18
Lebron 16

Best 4 year stretch
MJ: 20
Lebron: 20

Best 5 year stretch
MJ: 22
Lebron: 26

Best 6 year stretch
MJ: 25
Lebron: 30

Best 7 year stretch
MJ: 31
Lebron: 34

Best 8 year stretch
MJ: 37
Lebron: 38

Even considering that the point system is somewhat arbitrary, doesn't really seem like MJ has a clear edge here. Lebron having an arguably better 8-year stretch than MJ is kind of nuts given that this was across 2 different teams and 3 different coaches, not to mention all kinds of injuries to his star teammates, playing against KD + Curry, etc.

Here's Inside the NBA talking about how the down-hill style is solvable and not 5-man basketball:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kEx6NQjxx3g&t=4m35s

Kenny and Charles agreed with him.. Robert Horry recently said the same thing about Lebron's game... Rashad McCants, Ric Bucher, and others are also on board... Everyone is coming around to the fact that Lebron doesn't need more help - he just needs to improve chemistry, fits and brand of ball..

I've said this for a decade and now finally everyone realizes it.. Teams win games based on talent AND chemistry - both are equally important and I would venture to say chemistry is actually quite a bit more important... For example, any top 20 all-time player will have an organic juggernaut after 6 or 7 seasons almost regardless of cast.. We saw this with Curry, MJ, Jokic and yes, even Lebron in 2010 - he had an organic juggernaut with a "normal" cast of 1 franchise player.. The difference is that he gave up on developing the chemistry required to win with 1 franchise player and "decided" to put 3 franchise guys on 1 team (super-team)..

But his brand still mostly lost - his brand isn't capable of great, all-time teams.. 21 years confirms this, along additional years coming from Luka, SGA, Westbrook, Harden - the modern player has a horrific, losing brand of ball.. Accordingly, the modern player is a loser that lacks the brand of ball to succeed in prior eras, and prior eras also didn't have the spacing that today's "down-hill" skillset requires.

And nobody understands what it takes to win at the pro game like Rashad McCants

There's no cast that Lebron mostly won with - he isn't capable of mostly winning with any cast and will mostly lose with every cast, aka 1/4 with AD, Love or Wade (except the Allen miracle)

Otoh, Curry won 3 in 4 years with the Warriors, or MJ won 6 in 7 with the Bulls, or Duncan won 3 in 5 with the Spurs.... Lebron is incapable of this and will mostly lose everywhere he goes.

Shaq's 2000 run rubs off on 01' and 02' but both guys were "the man" in 01' and 02' - it was a shared load, and it was clearly Kobe-ball against the best team (Spurs)

regardless, the point is that Kobe won with Pau and turned Pau from a 1x all-star into perennial All-NBA, while Lebron reduced Love and Bosh and had weaker teams with them at 3rd option than Kobe had with Pau at 2nd option..

It's clear as day - Kobe's scoring diversity fosters better chemistry that yields teammate elevation and better teams.. The story with Lebron is always how teammates played badly, while Kobe elevated teammates via superior chemistry that his skillset allowed.

I listed a bunch of guys, not just McCants... Rich Bucher agreed... Or Kenny Smith and Barkley... And obvious, Horry knows what it takes to win:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byQH6Sb4m_M&t=43s


"that's not winning basketball"


again, everyone is waking up to what I've known for a decade (down-hill style isn't 5-man basketball and prevents the great chemistry that allows great-performing cast, aka great team).. finally we have an explanation for why Lebron's teammates always play poorly and disappoint - it turns out that casts play great with great chemistry, and Lebron's skillset prevents this chemistry..

Twog, so all of your points have already been refuted and it's getting boring here, so let's actually get to the point. How would you compare yourself to Ant from an athletic and basketball perspective? It seems to me that you think you had all of those attributes Ant lacks - you're using MJ as a stand-in, but doesn't that apply to yourself as well? Maybe you could've been even better in today's game, against lesser competition, just didn't have the same opportunity?

Would this apply to you vs Ant?

Also, what do you think is your brand of basketball? Would you be able to be a good leader and lift everyone up like you imagine MJ did?