Dennis set the record for 38 yr olds with 21 rebs, so 1 short...

Dillon brooks is prime kawhi compared to hornacek majerle and ehlo

Dillon Brooks is an above average player in the 90s. He'd be a better shooter than 3/5 players on an average team.

Kobe represents something that matters to players.

This relentless work ethic and in game persona appeals to a lot of players.

Last night I witnessed a 38 year old 6’9 250lb man play 47 mins..(more than guys almost half his age) and nobody could stop him driving to the hoop

Oldest player to 20/20 (Wilt Chamberlein at 36 in 1976) ever.

This series is giving us new data in this debate, after a year of new data. I’m sure the MJ lovers will ignore it, but best player on the floor making a playoff win for a 7 seed vs a 2 seed is stuff we haven’t seen before.

Some of us were able to see it before the series even started!

Imagine thinking Memphis ever should've been the betting favorite.

Okay, but what does it say about this debate? 38 year old LeBron is expected to find a way against superior opposition (well, they should be superior) and apparently it’s just expected? He’ll likely be 3rd team All NBA at 38, and this is just expected. And this doesn’t move the needle of the debate, at all?

Don't forget about this 90s legend

You can't move the needle against nostalgia.


Jordan represents a moment in time when they were younger and happier versions of themselves.

A 38 year old in year 20 just willed his team to victory on 22-20-7 and our expectation is "meh", below average LeBron game.

Then we will look back 30 years from now and wait for another player to be this good at year 20 and it won't happen.

wow statwhore labald is racking up bulk stats in a scoring inflation era 1st round game against ****ing dillon brooks? holy ****, this totally makes up for all the times he choked in actual big spots

At least once every game AD goes down and looks hurt. And getting hurt has been a common theme in his career.

Without AD, this Lakers team is toast. Obv same goes for Lebron. And both are injury prone over the last couple of years.

I’m sorry LeBron is still all NBA level at age 38 and this hurts you.

They only need 1 to be healthy to beat Memphis, imo.

The Grizzlies just aren't that good. If all the great players in the west were healthy/trying (Lakers, Warriors, Suns, Clippers) during the regular season -- the Griz would probably be a 5 or 6 seed.

In the next round, the Lakers will need both to beat the Warriors, but could maybe get by the Kings with only 1 (depending on Fox's injury).

LeBron's longevity is absolutely amazing.

The opposition is not superior, though. The Lakers will have 2 of the 3 best players in every series they play. That matters in the playoffs.

Is it possible Lebron will go down as the GOAT of the NBA but not be considered the GOAT of any of the franchises he'd played for?! What would a Cavs player need to do to become the greatest Cav? Win 2 or 3 rings and a couple MVPs?


https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/st...355547648?s=20

Ah yes, 1 Finals appearance and 0 wins is definitely better than LeBron 4 appearances and 2 wins/FMVPs or Wade 5 appearances, 3 wins/1FMVP. That’s not even including regular seasons awards and accolades.

Delusional stuff.

Would’ve been better if he retired and wasn’t playing injured at age 38 instead. Any of LeBron’s accomplishments are stat padding and any of his losses are historic chokes.

I laughed at how casual you made the bolded sound- here's a list of players who have done that in NBA history:

Kareem
MJ
Russell
Wilt
Lebron
Bird
Magic
Curry
Duncan

Lebron career games played with the Cavs: 849
MJ's career games with the Bulls: 930
Magic's career games played: 906
Larry Bird's career games played: 897
Lebron career games played: 1421
Kareem career games played: 1560

It's hilarious how the MJ-stans who talk about how longevity doesn't matter when it comes to evaluating careers and it's all about how good you were at your peak drop the pretense the moment they think the longevity argument even slightly favors them. I mean we already knew this - # of rings has always been a longevity stat, it's just not a particularly good one - but it's interesting to see the mask come off completely.

I think Lebron's Cavs career alone was slightly more impressive than MJ's career overall, though it trails Kareem's overall career in terms of overall value. Lebron in 08-09 and 09-10 was a better regular season player than MJ was at any point in his career and Lebron from 15-16 to 17-18 was a more impactful playoff performer than MJ ever was.

I don't think people remember how absurd it was that the Cavs somehow had the best record in both 08-09 and 09-10. Both teams were completely awful outside of Lebron. And by that, I don't mean a bad supporting cast for a good team, but rather two of the worst teams ever assembled.

In the 09-10 season, these were the team leaders in minutes played:

Lebron
Mo Williams
Anthony Parker
Anderson Varejao
JJ Hickson
Delonte West
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Shaquille O'Neal

Here's how each player performed without Lebron in the next 3 seasons:

Mo Williams - 3 seasons (age 28-30, 103 GS), -1.1 BPM
Anthony Parker - 2 seasons (age 35-36, 116 GS), -1.9 BPM
Anderson Varejao - 3 seasons (age 28-30, 81 GS), 1.1 BPM
JJ Hickson - 3 seasons (age 22-24, 165 GS), -1.9 BPM
Delonte West - 2 seasons (age 27-28, 35 GS), 1.3 BPM
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 1 season (age 35, 51 GS), -2.7 BPM
Shaquille O'Neal - 1 season (age 38, 36 GS), 0.3 BPM

I mean, let's forget about the stars, there's not a single above average starter on that list. Of those players, the only players to manage even 100+ GS over the next 3 seasons, put up a -1.9, -1.9 and -1.1 BPM respectively - those are borderline replacement-level. And no this doesn't get much better if you look at the 08-09 roster, it's more of the same, with the likes of Daniel Gibson and Wally Szczerbiak being the main difference. There have been teams literally trying to tank that have put together better teams than this.

And somehow this team, with Lebron playing absolutely out of his mind on both ends, managed to win 61 games, after winning 66 the previous year with a similarly bad roster. No one has ever done anything remotely close to this in NBA history.

Not to mention he's played more post season games than any of them. And it won't even be close. The mileage on Lebron is insane. Probably the most impressive physical specimen in the history of sports.

And this is coming from someone who idolized Jordan in the 90s. And was a major Lebron hater and Jordan Stan for more than 10 years of Lebron's career. But I couldn't continue after his finals performance against the Warriors, which was the last time I ever rooted against him.

Yeah I only got activated about this stuff after posting on a basketball forum (not here) during the 2016 finals and being shocked at the level of hate around LeBron. To me it was a super human performance in any which way you analysed it, and I assumed I was watching the Greatest Basketball player to ever walk the earth, even before looking into it.

The butthurt from aul lads during that finals was insane. The refs are rigging it, LeBron ‘getting’ Dray suspended, Kyrie taking the last shot means he should be MVP, LeBron only won because Curry was injured, etc.

I think the 2016 finals is where people either accepted reality or decamped to narratives. KD joining the Warriors was a one outer to them being able to wallow in that nostalgia the next couple of years. The Last Dance did what MJ intended it to when he commissioned it immediately after watching 2016. LeBron went and won another Finals MVP Ring a few months later, but what about the bubble, etc.

It’s like DodgerIrish has said in this thread multiple times: we’re just arguing with how boomers feel about the 90’s. When their own lives were better, the midrange jump shot was King, the African American players were less uppity and had their career journeys more easily owned and controlled by old rich white owners. It has to be MJ until they die, it can never be someone else. Which of course is not how human progress works in reality. Someone better will always come along. It’s particularly hard to accept that someone better entered the league just as MJ exited it.

Sure we have the odd younger person (i.e. under 35) in here stanning MJ but it’s either trolling or they’re Warriors fans, as far as I can see.

MJ wil never be my GOAT, but he’s a close number 2 and then there’s a gap to the next tier of GOAT type players. But nobody is going to convince anyone here of anything, that much is clear. I’m really gonna try and drop this thread from my life.

Lebron had more tools to work with. To begin, he was a much better player.