The game where Magic was 4-13 with 14 points? 2 assists fewer than his series average, 7 rebounds and 4 turnovers as the Lakers lose by 21. That was the one where Pippen had him?

Yep the cherry picked video game that unfairly makes MJ look awful. Got it.

Magic was 19 8 and 12 that series.

Seems from what you are saying, he made hay with MJ on him, like the video shows, or the stats in game 1 and 5... and got locked down by other Bulls, mostly Pippen, when MJ didnt guard him.

If MJ guarded Magic 70% of the time and Scottie did not guard Magic when Magic had his best games, but did guard him when he had his worst, what other conclusion can I come to?

Pippen's defense was offset by 4 teammates and resulted in the #7 team defense during the 1st three-peat, including weaker defenses than 2 of 3 Finals opponents and 2 of 3 ECF opponents.

So when Pippen underperformed his 2nd option scoring role, he can't make up it with defense because 4 teammates are offsetting his defense, whereas only Pippen is responsible for a 2nd option scoring role.

Individual defense is simply less important and less impactful for top scoring options that have offensive responsibility.



Kareem averaged 34 ppg in the 80' Finals and carried Magic to the title, and then he did the same thing in 85' when he averaged 25 ppg with FMVP.

Wade averaged 27 in the 2011 Finals and led lebron in scoring for the 11' Playoffs

AD led Lebron in scoring for the 2020 Playoffs, while Kyrie matched Lebron in 2016.

Otoh, Pippen's peak was 22 ppg, or 6-10 points less than elite 1st option sidekicks like Curry, Wade, Kobe, Kareem or AD.

So Jordan would have a lot more rings if he enjoyed the elite 1st option and FMVP sidekicks that everyone else enjoyed - instead, he was stuck with a true 2nd option and inferior team defenses

For someone who went 6-0 in the finals, won a ton of regular season games you love dogging the bulls other than MJ; it’s embarrassing. You keep shifting goal posts as well. Yes in some cases Kareem and others turned up their scoring but if you look at the bulk of their time with the respectively superstar teammates it wasn’t as rosy as you’re painting it to be. Jordan didn’t like sharing, I don’t know if he played with Charles or someone else of his scoring stature that’d it be so easy to repeat what he did with Pippen.

Magic shot 43% in the series with 4.5 turnovers per game, while Jordan guarded him for the vast majority of the series

So Jordan completely destroyed a top 5 all-time player heads-up in the Finals, while actually guarding him most of the time.

Magic..'... 19/8/12 on 43% (3 teammates matched Magic's scoring)
Jordan.... 31/7/11 on 56% (carry-job)

To review, MJ had Magic game 1, 4, and 5. Game 1 (19 points on 4 of 5 shooting, triple double Bulls loss), Game 5 - 55% of the offense with 20 assists.

And game 4. Magic took 13 shots to score 22 points. 11 assists. Lakers scored 81 points. Magic accounted for 54% of them.

You know you are wrong here. I spelled it out for you. Game by game. Using your own claims of who guarded Magic and when. Pippen shut Magic down for 6 quarters. That was all it took to drive his percentages down. The rest of the time he was dealing.

Magic TS% same as MJ's TS% that series. .612. Magic just overpowered MJ and shot a ton of FT. Look at the video. Evidently he was doing that all series. 19 points on 5 shots lolz. Look at Vlade. Vlade lmao getting to rim at will.

Lebron's skill restriction to ball-dominance doesn't fit with certain player types and therefore craters the stats of certain guys

Otoh, when MJ returned in 95', everyone took a 1-2 point haircut across the board - it was an equitable reduction where everyone still played close to capacity because MJ's goat scoring versatility fit with everyone

So no - he wouldn't crater Barkley or another elite 1st option - Barkley and MJ would eat their normal share, while everyone else takes tiny haircuts and still plays close to capacity.

Honestly, it would be night and day for MJ alongside a reliable sidekick that could take over - MJ could rest or pad his other stats... Perhaps a line of 27/8/10 on 57% would make sense alongside another elite assist target.. Although MJ would always average 30 regardless of cast in the NBA's format, so probably 30/8/10.
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For those that don't know, in basketball, true shooting percentage is an advanced statistic that measures a player's efficiency at shooting the ball. It is intended to more accurately calculate a player's shooting than field goal percentage, free throw percentage, and three-point field goal percentage taken individually. Two- and three-point field goals and free throws are all considered in its calculation. It is abbreviated TS%.

No wonder you are hyping the fg%. I caught you bro. Hang it up. Bulls hacked the hell out of Magic all series as he backed down MJ, spun in the lane, and the help had to foul and he made them pay at the stripe. He made 8 FT a game.
But for that he would have shot 60% and scored at will. Only Pippen game 2 and part of game 3 could contain him.

1991

Magic Western PO...'.. 22.9.. 8.1.. 12.7.. 44.3%.. 3.9 TO's.. 22.9 gmsc

Magic Finals............... 18.6.. 8.0.. 12.4.. 43.0%.. 4.4 TO's.. 20.0 gmsc


Looks like MJ did a great job defending Magic, especially while getting 31 on 56% and while carrying the scoring and clutch load


https://www.basketball-reference.com...basic_playoffs

After Magic dominated Jordan in game 1, and Pippen shut him down game 2, Phil was going to start Pippen on Magic again. But Jordan said "I can do it coach!". Phil said, ok. By the second quarter, Phil had seen enough, put some size on Magic.

Dejected and sobbing after the game, Phil said to MJ "You're 6 foot 6 nothin', 225 and nothin', and you have barely a speck of athletic ability. Well other than that FT double clutch dunk thing and all that. And you hung in there with the best professional basketball players in the land. And you're gonna walk outta here with a degree from the University of Notre Dame."

Confused but encouraged, the Bulls went on the beat the Lakers in 5.

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1991

Magic Western PO...'.. 22.9.. 8.1.. 12.7.. 44.3%.. 3.9 TO's.. 22.9 gmsc

Magic Finals............... 18.6.. 8.0.. 12.4.. 43.0%.. 4.4 TO's.. 20.0 gmsc


Looks like MJ did a great job defending Magic, especially while getting 31 on 56% and while carrying the scoring and clutch load




Nonsense

Pippen didn't guard Magic in Games 1, 4, or 5, and barely half of the other 2 games, so you didn't show anything

See the stats above - MJ held Magic below his Western Conference Playoff averages that year, across the board

Magic shot in WCF.., TS%.603. Bulls might be better than Blazers that year hard to say. So Magic effectively shot worse in WCF, rebounded and assists the same... But Jordan locked him down. Kobe could only dream of doing as well as MJ...and Drexler I guess.

Dude I'm just going by wtf you tell me. Did Pippen guard Magic in game 2 or not?

ok, re: game 2.

The edited posts are accurate

Pippen didn't guard Magic at all in Games 1 or 5, and only the last 4 minutes of Game 4 (so basically nothing in Games 1, 4 or 5)..

Pippen only guarded Magic for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters of Game 2, and the 2nd and 3rd quarters of Game 3..

Magic didn't go crazy in any game, and Jordan turned him into a predictable ball-dominator in the closeout game (his last resort)

I am watching game 2 right now. Unlike you said, Pippen is on Magic in the first quarter. Jordan did start on Magic. Grant had 14 in the first half. Jordan 2 at the half but heated up big time after Pippen took the task of handling Magic (4-13, 14 points for the game, by far his worst of the series) Take this game out where Pippen guarded him, Magic shot...48% from field for series. We also saw the highlights of game 3 in my video. idk what Magic shot with Jordan on him vs Pippen that game, but since they had to put Pippen on him as Magic was dealing against Jordan...I wouldn't be surprised if Magic shot over 50% fg with Jordan on him for the series with an outrageous TS%.

Magic has 5 assists, 0-0 fg in the first 8 mins of the game. MJ has 2 fouls already, both from Magic overpowering him. They put Pippen on Magic at this point in the first. Magic way too much for Jordan. Backing him down every time, finding the open man right over him for the easy bucket.

Did Pippen guard Magic the rest of the way? If so, this means for the rest of the game with Pippen on him Magic went 4-13, scored 14 points, had 4 turnovers and 5 assists in a 21 point loss. Bulls up by just 2 when they took Jordan off of him 8 mins in.

Yeah, I fast forwarded randomly to the 3rd quarter, Pippen on Magic. Magic turns into lane, drives and shoots and misses, Grant bumped him maybe... Marv says "Magic is only 1 for 7 from the floor." Probably up by 15 or Pippen let up a bit as Magic did hit 3 for 6 the rest of the way.

4th quarter, bulls up a ton, Pippen still on Magic.

Again lets review:
Game 1. Magic scored 19 points on 5 shots with a triple double in win. Jordan guards Magic, no Pippen.

Game 2. Magic gets MJ in foul trouble 8 mins in. Bulls up by 2. Magic on pace for 30 assists when Pippen is switched to Magic, Magic is 0-0 from field at this point. The rest of the way with Pippen on him, Magic goes 4-13, 14 points and 5 assists in a 21 point loss.

Game 3, we saw the video, MJ cannot guard Magic. It's plain as day. Phil has to switch to Pippen again. Magic relentlessly backing down Jordan, turning, and finding the open man for a layup or getting fouled.

Game 4. Magic 6-13fg, 10-10ft. 22 points 11 assists 6 rebounds. Jordan on him. Lakers score 82 points.

Game 5. Magic 4-12fg with 2 three pointers, 6-6ft, 16 points, 11 rebs, 20 assists. Accounting for 55% of Lakers offense.


This is what you think is greatness from Jordan defensively? Honestly??

The Bulls lost Game 1 by 2 points because the supporting cast shot 43%, including 19/7/5 on 36% for Pippen (Jordan had 36/8/12 on 56%)





Otherwise, Jordan guarded Magic in Games 4 and 5 when Magic shot 6-13 and 4-12 (10-25 combined)

Jordan thoroughly dominated him heads-up for the entire series.




Here's Magic saying "Jordan's strength is like a big man's.. He's the strongest guard to ever play" (video here)...

Here's Artest saying "MJ is the toughest to guard because he's as strong as Lebron, he shoots just as good as Reggie Miller from the midrange..." (video here)

So the 91' Finals is actually a series where we see Jordan's superiority over Kobe because Kobe couldn't guard Magic like that, nor could he shoot 56% while getting 31 and 11 apg.. the defense and the superior efficiency at any volume separates MJ from Kobe.




Overall, Pippen didn't guard Magic at all in Games 1 or 5, and only the last 4 minutes of Game 4 (so basically nothing in Games 1, 4 or 5)..

Pippen only guarded Magic for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters of Game 2, and the 2nd and 3rd quarters of Game 3..

Magic didn't go crazy in any game and his overall Finals averages were below his regular season or western playoffs averages across the board.. Meanwhile, Jordan thoroughly outplayed him heads-up for the entire series.
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This is about Jordan and how he did defending Magic. If you simply take away game 2 when Pippen guarded him, Magic had a great series statistically. He shot 48% from the field, but because he was drawing so many fouls, his TS% was way higher than Jordan's absent game 2.

If you take Magic's assists for 4.25 games (giving him .25 for the first quarter of game 2), Magic averaged...13.4 assists. Do you want me to look at game 3, where Magic was passing all over Jordan and, again, they had to switch? Magic probably averaged 15 assists per game with Jordan on him. These aren't cheapo assists. These are back you down, turn, pass right over the top for wide open layups or jump shots.

Close to 20 points 10 rebounds and 15 assists with a TS% of near .700 with Jordan on him is my estimation.

Jordan had a great series. Better than Magic. No doubt about it. He absolutely could not guard Magic. Pippen could. Lebron could. And Magic gives us a window into what would happen if Jordan tried to guard Lebron. Except it would be much uglier.

Why do you keep saying Jordan couldn't guard Magic when we know Jordan guarded Magic for Games 4 and 5 when Magic shot 6-13 and 4-12 (10-25 combined)?

Magic wasn't even trying to exploit or dominate Jordan - he couldn't - he barely took 5 shots in the first game and Jordan completely held him at bay - the bulls lost that game by 2 points only because the entire cast wet the bed with nervousness in their first Finals game.

This is common knowledge..

If Magic could dominate Jordan, he would've averaged 25 or 30 like he has in other series, especially with Jordan guarding him the vast majority of the series - but instead he averaged 18.6 on 43% with lower averages across the board compared to his regular season or western playoffs.
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Btw, guys like Gordon Hayward, Boris Diaw, Hezonja (spelling), Paul George, Paul Pierce (08' ECSF), Kawhi, Iggy, Crowder, Jimmy Butler and many others locked up Lebron.

So the idea that Jordan wouldn't bottle him up is a joke - Jordan was scoring champ and top 5 DPOY from 88-98' (the goat standard)

Furthermore, Lebron doesn't dominate the post and never has, while Jordan is the goat post player because he led the league in scoring 3 straight years from the post (96-98')... So Jordan would dominate Lebron on the post, while Lebron's game would look ugly as hell down there like it always does.

idk because in game 1 Magic scored 19 on 5 shots and had a triple double? Because in game 2 Magic was on pace for 30 assists and Jordan was on pace for 12 fouls until they realized Jordan couldn't guard him. Because in game 3, the same, they realized Jordan couldnt guard him and gave up?

And then you cite the final 2 games where Magic single handedly accounted for 55% of the Lakers offense over those 2 games. And what 6-13 and 10-10 from the line with 11 assists? That is good defense?
12 shots, 16 points and 20 assists the final game?

Fine, he can guard Magic. When he does, he gets in foul trouble, 40% of the games he gets switched off from abuse, and Magic puts up outrageous numbers 20 10 and 15 on a TS% of .700. Absolute GOAT numbers. He can hold Magic to goat numbers the 60% of the time the coach doesn't give up on him.

Jordan did great on Magic because those numbers are garbage - 19 points on 60% TS is garbage - Magic does that to everyone and Jordan kept his activity below normal levels, while accounting for far more of his team's offense than Magic

Magic never dominated Jordan - it was the other way around

Furthermore, your argument is that Jordan couldn't guard Lebron, but Iggy is 6'6" and 200 pounds - he turned lebron into Iverson.. And if JJ Barea can get in Lebron's head, then what would Jordan do?... What about when Paul George held lebron to 22 ppg?

Isn't Kawhi less athletic than Jordan, and Lebron was scared of baby Kawhi... Jordan is simply the best defender Lebron ever faced (scoring champ and top 5 DPOY from 88-98')