when i would lift weights and bench press...225...two plates...what the nfl does to test out for reps...i wasnt super strong but i could do reps with it. when i was lifting and strong. 265 though was a max.

jordan was maybe 225. lebron is all of 265. it is just a different animal leaning on u.

jordan didnt have eyes in the back of his head playmaking ability. Magic, Larry, Nash, Kidd, Lebron...these guys know where everyone is and made that pass. flip it behind them. no look. it's zen and freaky.

yet Jordan might have made his teammates better. Just because they were scared of him. I heard Carmen Electra today on the radio. Dennis was due at practice. Jordan came to the door. Dennis was scared.

Jorden didnt need eyes in the back of his head. two in front for that double clutching dunker from the foul line was all it took.

It's not just "globalization."

Look at the rise in human population since 1990. America (still the largest producer of NBA talent) has grown by 85 million people in the last 30 years, roughly a 33% increase. This alone makes it so that you can't claim that expansion has watered down the league from the time there were 23 teams, because the population has grown to match the increase in the number of teams.

Additionally, basketball has grown in popularity globally in that time, including in America. MLB is less popular than it used to be, while the NBA is more popular. A lower percentage of black athletes are going into MLB compared to 30 years ago, favoring NBA and NFL now. This again leads to a bigger talent pool to draw from, and increased competition. Who were the best international players in 1990? Hakeem for sure, and I guess you could say Ewing was Jamaican, although both of them went to college in the US and both played for the US national team. It seems like every team nowadays has some Euro-guy who can pass and shoot 3's.

Is basketball talent "an order of magnitude" better compared to 30 years ago? No, although you could argue that strategy and training methods are an order of magnitude better now. Back then the 3-point shot was still thought of as a gimmick or desperation strategy instead of a legitimate offensive weapon. Strength training wasn't even widespread yet. Young Jordan was skinny until he bulked up following losses in multiple years to the Pistons.

The best players would have the talent to dominate any era, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that across the league, the 10th best player on any team is better at basketball than the 10th best player on a team in 1990. If you accept this fact, then it stands that it's harder to put up numbers in a league where the average and worst players have gotten better. To use an extreme example, prime Wilt Chamberlain ain't putting up 50 ppg if he were playing today. The change from 1990 to 2020 is not as drastic, but it isn't zero.

LeBron/Wade wasn't a very good fit because they had very similar offensive skillsets and Wade was kind of just a smaller and worse LeBron.

Hypothetically I think LeBron/Curry beat everyone.

Like I said earlier and Matt as well , it is true but it won’t change much because the 8th to 10th player in a team , even if u replace them ( C or D ) by better international players (B- or C+ ) aren’t good enough to stop the top 1% .

To make a big impact imo you would need to expand the top tier A player from international players substantially or eradicate the bottom C players American players by B international players .
And for now it ain’t so .

The problem is I would never pick lebron at 28 over shaq, jordan, bird ( his last year before he injured his back ) at the same age .....

You know the last dance ran out of material pretty fast when it is hitting on the Pistons walking off the court as some grand controversy

Not much new material in this thing makes it boring, but I get why they did it.

i never understood how magic became better than larry in the late 90's when in the 80's larry bird was the best and goat. larry bird was the best and goat back then. then rookie micheal jordan played against larry bird. larry bird was mvp, world champion. larry said from day one jordan was the greatest basketball player he had ever seen. it was undeniable. that was larry bird. that was mj.

what u need to understand is lebron james is six foot nine 265, can jump out of the gym and nobody has ever been able to f with him for the last 20 years.

5 rings vs 3 and getting HIV certainly didn't hurt his sympathy factor

I do think Bird was better though....played in a superior conference with an inferior team, during their primes he won 3 straight MVPs and was the consensus best player in the league. Magic did have a little more longevity thanks to Bird's back injuries though.

This is a great post.

Pure anatta awesomeness. dharma, zen, all rolled into 98 words!

What I never understand is when I see people saying lebron is amazing because his tall , big and great agility as if shaq wasn’t even bigger and agile as well and nobody couldn’t f*ack with him either and MJ and the bulls swept him...

Hakeem Olajuwon Was freakn 7 feet tall as well , 255 and super agile as well playing in the same era of MJ and the only 2 ring he had is when MJ retired.
Kareem was 7 feet 2 !

I don’t understand why people bring up height and weight as if it could add anything to lebron ....

Shaq and Olajuwon were athletic for their position. LeBron is built like Karl Malone but has the speed and agility of an athletic guard, that's the difference. He functionally is a point guard on offense which requires elite ball-handling and passing, which he possesses.

Height and weight are a big deal for LeBron because most players with his height and weight do not possess his skillset or attributes. In basketball height and bulk are hugely advantageous but usually come with severe drawbacks (in mobility usually). LeBron gains advantages from his size and strength without incurring the usual penalties associated with having those traits.

basketball has always been about "face". in your face. the slam dunk.

not really about who can fight. but it does help when your shoulders are as wide as the lane. when u can reach a point higher in the air than anyone else. the Gracies of BJJ say to their older black belts who are losing to younger lower belts...for every 10 years, that is a belt. For every 20 pounds, that is a belt. Everybody understands when Lebron walks out there...6'9'' explosive 265...this is a tank. stay out of this mans way when he is going full speed.


Robert Parish joined the Bulls late in his career...

“I didn’t back down,” Parish said. “He said he would kick my butt, and I told him he felt that strongly about it, come and get some. That was the end of it. We didn’t have another confrontation.”

Parish, who trained in the martial arts, was confident in his abilities should things have gotten out of control. Fortunately for everyone involved, it didn’t escalate.

“Michael has a tendency to test his teammates especially the new faces on the team,” he said. “I think it was more of a test than a threat. He was testing my reaction to his being a bully.... I didn’t read anything into it. I think it was just a test to see how I would respond."

robert parish or moses malone or charles oakley are imposing humans. but there is a reason why he is called "king james". it isnt given to the baddest knight. it is an honor given to he who can't be f'd with.

Jordan felt the need to assert his dominance. Lebron...well we all have eyes. This is a tank. Stay out of his way.

No, Giannis is not better than prime Lebron. Prime Lebron was outlier level good even for an MVP. Giannis it's debatable if he's even the best player in the league. That overtakes a mere 10 years of league improvement. But comparing peak MJ to peak Lebron is comparing two outlier level MVPs, twenty years apart. So there is an argument to be made that, even though MJ was more of an outlier (which I def agree with, his rate advanced stats, which by definition are a measure of how much better than their contemporaries a player was, show he had the most dominant peak ever), it's possible that 20 years of league improvement mean peak Lebron was actually better in a pure abstract sense. Not sure I agree and it's a hard one to prove either way, but there's definitely a case imo. I think the following are all inarguably true:
- MJ had better peak stats than Lebron
- The gap is small
- The league has substantially improved
Where you end up from those 3 points is probably always going to be guesswork. You can save yourself the mental ache though by just defining best peak as 'best relative to their contemporaries' and then you can just compare stats and voila it's MJ.

On your Usain Bolt argument, he set the 100m WR in 2009, and he was an MJ/Lebron level dominant athelete in his sport. Do you seriously think the WR wont be troubled by 2029? Even if another dominant 100m sprinter comes along? I think it pretty clearly will, and it doesn't just mean we have someone who is even more of an outlier than Usain, so that analogy/way of thinking is imo a point in favour of Lebron actually being best ever. But it's not a proof because sprinting isn't basketball.

Jordan is Kasparov
LeBron is Magnus
and Wilt was Fischer

/thread

LeBron is Magnus
Wilt is Morphy
Russell is Lasker
Kobe is Alekhine
Jordan is me playing drunk blitz

Whoa I just learned that Jordan went 5/5 losing seasons in the years he didn't play with Pippen

RELEVANT IF TRUE

BREAKING NEWS: PIPPEN WON 55 GAMES AND MADE THE CONFERENCE FINAL WITHOUT MJ

SHOCKING IF TRUE

LMAO MJ was swept twice in the first round??? That can't be true...definitely not GOAT material.

MJ couldn't even get Madonna from HIS OWN TEAMMATE, saying that there was no way MJ could satisfy her. Lol Hanes tighty whities.

Haha Jordan is 5/15 without Pippen in the postseason. Pippen's shoulders must've gotten super sore.

Conclusion: beta cuck Jordan only won championships while paying Scotty to watch him plow chicks he could never get

Added tidbit: Tiger lets Jordan have the Perkins waitresses he's already defiled