LOL what a loser

Rainbow colors

This must be what playoff LeBron fully activated and zero dark thirty LeBron look like. What a treat.

Veeector,
LeBron is GOAT b/c he made 9 straight final appearances. (We ignore that he went 3-6. That's not important because reasons right?)

I believe the argument from the intelligent side was that while sure that's great and all, let's keep in mind he did it in a historically terrible conference. And well... lost 6 times out of 9 after forming a superteam but remembs we ignoring that.

Could you help me understand why the GOAT is currently sitting 30-34 in the West?

Wait wait, lemme guess. When LeBron does well that's b/c LeBron. When he doesn't make playoffs that's because BAD TEAM BAD.

For Jordan. Opposites. Jordan not fave player so when Jordan do good is b/c TEAMMATES GOOD. When Jordan do bad it's b/c haha MJ Sucks.

Then we simply ignore the fact Jordan has better peak stats, Jordan has 6 rings to LeBron's 3, and Jordan went 6-0 in finals to LeBron's 3-6. Thusfore, if we ignore all context and cherry pick to our hearts' content, our fave player (LEBROO) comes out unscathed and is clear GOAT.

Man, that's pretty sweet. I could do that for literally any player, pick his peak 3 minutes or whatever, ignore any other part of his career I want to, then compare to Jordan's Wizard years, and they'd be GOAT. I like this a lot.

So far in LA, Lebron has:

-Not played any defense
-Tried to trade away his entire team for AD
-Threw his team under the bus, refusing to take any blame
-Made no effort to make the playoffs
-Spent most of his time preparing to film Space Jam 2, in addition to producing 2 Chainz's new album, a movie about himself, a netflix docu series, and a remake of house party. Literally anything but helping his team win.

So how far away are we from Lebron shutting it down with an injury that "hes been playing with all season" like hes been known to do when faced with being a loser and then his stans can say omg but he was hurt and missed so many games!

Eye test should be really all you need here. First season in a competent conference and hes a complete loser and throwing everyone under the bus and literally not trying.

Matt R is back, after getting dunked on so badly he disappeared for weeks. Very LeBron esque if you ask me. Hopefully candybar doesn’t return and shut him down for the season.

But guys, LeBron’s legacy is totally ruined if he doesn’t make the playoffs in an injury riddled first year (not just him, other key players on the team). If he would just make the playoffs as an 8 seed and lose to Golden State, he’d finally get my respect. But this playoff miss I cannot bear.

MJ age 34 season - 4.6 BPM, 29/6/3.5 on 53 TS%

LBJ age 34 season - 7.7 BPM, 27/9/8 on 59 TS% (note: injured groin midseason and didn’t take off multiple years in age 30-31 years)

MJ age 35 season - 0 BPM, 0/0/0 on 0% shooting

LBJ age 35 season - TBD

Guess playing against aging late 90s scrubs who don’t even lift weights (except child rapist Karl Malone) on a loaded squad is easier than playing with JaVale McGee, MAGA Muscala, and Reggie Bullock.

Looking forward to the face rolling and drooling on keyboards for posting everyone’s favorite BPM stat instead of level 0 thinking.

You forgot...

Michael Jordan @ 34 - All NBA 1st team defender
LeBron James @ 34 - One of the worst defenders in the league

LeBron haters trying get as much relevance as possible out of this season is top notch unintentional comedy

All this season proves is that Lonzo is better than MJ

MJ DBPM - 0
LBJ DBPM - 1.8

No on/offs existed for MJ unfortunately, but the Lakers defense is a full 6 pts/100 worse with LBJ off the floor, per Cleaning the Glass.

So basically the moral of the story is - a checked out, banged up LeBron who has given up on the season, cares more about his Hollywood projects than basketball, destroyed the locker room, and is being lazy - is STILL significantly better than MJ at age 34, playing much better competition and with a much worse supporting squad.

Serious question. Can you actually watch LeBron play defense and say he's good at it this season?

I mean forget the MJ vs LeBron thing and objectively say if he is good or not.

No, LeBron is checked out and not giving much effort on defense this year, leading to some embarrassing clips. That isn’t the same as being one of the worst defenders in the league. That is not even close to true by any metric.

I suspect if Twitter existed in 1998, we could find laughable plays of MJ taking off and probably build a similar narrative. If you watch late 90s basketball, players legitimately walk up the court in playoff crunch time, so LeBron lazily not helping on defense in 2019 might be considered the norm in 1998. If you hate yourself, pull up some clips of Utah-Chi Finals games and fact check it. It’s pretty funny to watch how slow the players move and give no effort on defense compared to modern playoff basketball between the Warriors and Rockets, for example.

The bottom line is players decline at this age. MJ significantly declined and was smart to retire - since he was basically DeRozan with a gambling addiction at age 34. LeBron is still a more effective player than MJ across the board at this age, with significantly more miles on him in a way worse situation.

lol Lebron has openly admitted to cruising on defense for years. And he's playing fewer minutes and lower usage this year compared to recent years/his career average.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...rs-hopes-alive

Also fun fact: Lebron has only hit 33% usage 4 times in his career, all before he went to Miami. He's been lucky enough to be surrounded by elite talent since then, so he's coasted both on offense and defense. MJ hit 33% 10 times, including his age 34 season.

LeBron on D this year (and last year but it was the East so it didn't matter) is similar to Kobe on D in the 2012-2013 season where he had some MVP hype as well because his career numbers on offense were as good as they always were. The year he tore his achilles with like a week left in the season and LAL barely squeaked into the playoffs.

He's 34, has a million miles on him in a 6'8 275 pound frame and is playing in a league where you can't be physical on D. He just looks stuck in mud out there. I don't think it has a ton to do with effort, just like I don't think it did with Kobe, I just think he can't do it anymore without sacrificing some offense. And pretty much 99% of great players are gonna sacrifice their defense before their offense.

I was actually disoriented and discombobulated from the shrieking autistic harpies who were sooper concerned over my correct use of the word "lopsided". I had to peace out for a bit. And since candybar's arguments were obviously ridiculous on the surface, and I explained why in previous posts, I just pointed at the scoreboard and left for a bit. Now I'm back wearing #45.

No, his legacy isn't ruined at all and that's not what was said. He is still top 5 of all time for sure.

What's being argued (correctly), is that the pro-LeBron huggy bears, who claimed his 9 straight finals appearances were all LeBron and proves he is GOAT, aren't taking into account that he accomplished this in a terrible conference and lost 6 out of 9 times to the West team. Now, we see what happens when he actually plays against good competition for the whole season. He doesn't even make the playoffs and currently doesn't have a winning record.

i.e. while he still has relatively solid numbers, it does not translate to team success, and a huge factor in him having so much success in the East is because he was playing against horrible, horrible teams for 15 years. This proves that while he still puts up good numbers, it's at the expense of win probability (compared to MJ). In other words, stat padding.

Yeah, from an individual productivity/statistical perspective, LeBron appears to be more efficient than MJ in their age 34 season. But you aren't adjusting for minutes. It remains TBD if MJ keeps his minutes adjusted (i.e. total productivity) lead.

But that's their age 34 season. So like, who really cares? Robert Parish is going to be better than both of them in his age 43 season. MJ was better than LeBron (and Robert Parish) in his age ~22 to ~32 seasons, which is what people care about. Not after they start declining.

Eh, Jordan won a title. LeBron is 30-34. SMALL DIFFERENCE THERE CHIEF.

And again, I'm not arguing this season ruins his legacy. It just proves the arguments that LeBron made 9 straight finals because he played in a terrible conference correct. He can't even make the playoffs in the West, while he's still relatively close to his prime (some would argue still in his prime. REMEMBER LEBRON IS GOAT BC HE HAS A SUPER LONG PRIME GUYS.). Jordan won a title. 6 of them. LeBron 3. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

I do think the BPM stat is probably a pretty good efficiency metric, but I prefer VORP since it adjusts for minutes (i.e. total productivity). Can't really use it in playoffs tho because of the different number of games, etc. MJ comfortably ahead in VORP through peak, and prime years. Plus the 6 titles vs. 3 thing. Sorry to leave you so far behind in your level 0 thinking you can't see beyond your LeBron real doll. I'm trying to bring you to my level. You will achieve greatness one day, mullen, this I promise you.

I mean, they've clearly won. The debate is over.

The creators of the damn defensive box plus/minus stat state outright that great defenders aren't really captured by box score numbers and DBPM is insufficient. But here we are, trying to explain to mullen the level -1 thinker how to use numbers correctly.

This.

The lakers sold Lebron on the idea of putting 'playmakers' around him instead of shooters. This was to allow him to shoulder a smaller load on offense so that he could be better than AIDS on defense. But Lebron can pretty much only play 'everyone stand around flat-footed and watch me' offense so it didn't work.

I’m not sure if the fakers expected bron and a bunch of the playmakers to get hurt though although a bunch were old. Rondo, Ball and others have missed time. Ball, Ingram and rondo have missed a ton of games.

Lebron hasn’t been as great as he normally is and has been hurt but the team he went to is a flipping disaster zone. That should have been expected since the team has been a flipping disaster zone since the end of Jerry’s tenure as owner.

Jordan @ 34: Scoring champion, MVP, Finals MVP
Lebron @ 34: Set the record for most teammates passive-agressively criticized thru the media

Matt R facerolling and drooling complete. Now he loves VORP where Bron is already way ahead of MJ and will dwarf him by the end - and brings up Robert Parish as an excuse against longevity when he has 41 VORP career compared to MJ 104 and LeBron 129.

But only in the regular season for VORP, not the playoffs! BPM is better there. Oh wait, LeBron has a higher career playoff BPM as well.

everyone before the season: the lakers suck, they might miss the playoffs
*lebron misses 20 games, lakers miss the playoffs*
idiots: see, Lebron was only good in the east!

Good thing he has a beard, I have no clue what is going on under that thing.

Seems like HGH run wild. His head looks like it is approaching Bonds '02 levels.

Lol. I actually don’t know when that picture is from. Came across it on NBA Twitter and saved it because it’s hilarious