Have no clue what "26 and 28 game score games" means. Sounds stupid though. Yes, hes good enough to go out there and go through the motions and put up a bunch of stats. No one is arguing hes a horrible player.

But he has completely given up on thinking his team has any chance to win the series. And that happened between regulation and OT in Game 1.

Instead of putting the responsibility on himself to do better, he has to instead create this narrative that GS is some completely unbeatable force when that simply isn't the case.

I didn’t realize lebron handpicked Wallace. What other narrative did you want to share? Why’d Chicago give up on Ben so easily as well if he was so dominant? They had the best d in the league bens first season there and then they decided it was enough? Ben is a great player but like Rodman their both offensive 0s. I’ll assume if Ben was insanely dominant he wouldn’t have been third on their depth chart as a big. I don’t think AV or z is bombing 3s all day like Kevin love. Z is obviously a better offensive player. I hated av though but he’s not an offensive 0 as well.

Their completely unbeatable with lebeons current squad. It’s why the warriors were -1000 to start the series.

The point is lebron could try a lot harder if he’s giving up then playing basically every minute of the game and doing a ton of ****. Do you watch the finals game and see what the Cavs do when lebron is off the court? It’s a ****ing joke. I agree that they shouldn’t be this bad but clearly they are at this point in their careers. It’s like the keystone cops when Clarkson is leading the way.

This entire thread is a hypothetical considering these guys played in different eras, with different strategies and rules and talent pools.

So please feel free to leave the thread if making assumptions about teams that never played each other offends you that much.

Also, your "small sample - -> Jordan free ride" argument is absolutely incredible. I'm ****ing dying over here. Well done.

No they are not completely unbeatable. Cavs could easily be up 2-1 right now.

So stop with the pathetic excuses. The Warriors are better but they're not so much better that TOP MEN are sitting in rooms all over the country trying to figure out how to even try to compete with them. That's what LeBeta wants you all to think. But it has no basis in reality.

Houston was better all year and likely beats them if CP3 doesnt get hurt.

Cavs could be up 2-1 if Bron didnt defer to George Hill in regulation and then go 0-4 in OT.

And if he didn't get thoroughly bitchmade by KD at home in Game 3.

lol okay bro. You must have watched a different Cavs squad than I’ve seen all playoffs and in the finals.

Beating the dubs isn't literally impossible. It's impossible with a rotation consisting of the GOAT and players ranging from Clarkson to Love. And you can sub in whoever you think the GOAT is. The point still stands.

The Rockets literally admitted to doing exactly that for the last 11 months. Their entire medium-term strategy was built around that series.

And moreover, if you sub in Bron for Harden, Rox win. Even with CP3 injury. Maybe you disagree, but it's certainly more feasible than a Cavs win ever was. So what? What does that prove? LeBron is just as good either way.

this ben wallace stuff is revisionist history at its finest. he was absolutely hated in chicago. his play fell off a cliff when he went there. fans were ecstatic when he was traded.

Did I say he did? Narrative? I don't even know what you're talking about.

Yes, Ben is a great player like Rodman. That's all I was saying from the beginning. The difference is, you're not getting much playing time if you're an offensive 0 on LeBron's team.

It's not revisionism. It's knee jerk bias to the anti LeBron side because they hate their lives so much that they can't just calmly and objectively observe and do. They are compelled to WANT.

How can it be impossible if they literally were 1 ft away from winning Game 1 and had a lead at home with 5 minutes left in Game 3?

You may want to look up impossible in a dictionary friend

Lmao

Yeah Capela Ariza and PJ Tucker so much better than Love TT and Smiff

2nd team all-defense
Close to career highs in DBPM, BPM, and VORP.

Yes, someone is trying to revise history -- but it's not me.

Again, I didn’t realize lebron picked rotations in 2008. Mike brown was playing Ben Wallace and z at the same time. Like, I get it lebron picked his teammates for the heat and some of the Cavs, but I think you’re just making up **** in the situation. You’re right, Cavs were not built like the pistons where Ben first thrived. I’ll give you a hint why, they had four other scorers in their starting lineup. The Cavs had 2. It doesn’t work as well if you try to play lebron and mo with delonte, z and Ben Wallace. Maybe if delonte and z were upgraded to lets say prime rip Hamilton and sheed it would have made more sense to have Ben be the focal point of the Cavs d. Ben did start, again the issue was he started with z. Ben was forced to play the 4. Again, why is that lebrons fault?

Why’d he get shipped out if it was so honky dory? Two things aren’t adding up Vance. They just gave him a 4 year 60 million dollar deal and half way into season two despite all these good stats and the fact that they had the best d in the league the season before they shipped Ben out for peanuts.

Pretty sure they’re a million times better at d. Jfc Smith is literal garbage in this years playoffs.

Lol, what is this? First of all, CP3 played over half that series. He has a VORP of 4.3 on the year.

Capela is 2.6.

Ariza is 2.0.

Love is 1.4.

Tucker is 1.2.

Anderson is 1.0.

JR is 0.2.

TT is -0.1.

Feel free to check the other stats too. You'll find the same story.

Congratulations, you played yourself.

when looking at lists of the worst free agent signings of this era, guess who makes just about all of them?

http://sports.cbslocal.com/2016/06/2...n-nba-history/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...history#slide5

https://www.complex.com/sports/2013/...me/ben-wallace



https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/06/wor...ns-elton-brand

that sums it up best. the contract was "widely panned" at the time and then it turned out even worse. but no. here we are 12 years later and not only is wallace considered a great player for the bulls, but also 2-4 years a guy who relied on sheer athleticism supposedly remained a high level player.

the wanting is truly unprecedented.

Look, LBJ vs MJ is close. But you wouldn't know it by this thread. It's like the Lebron side hired Johnny Cochran and the MJ side hired Barry Zuckercorn.

lol all defensive teams are a joke. kobe made them in the twilight of his career.

wallace was garbage on the bulls. and he was truly garbage 3 years later.

I wish I could find the clip of him trying to dunk. wallace got the ball down low and turned and no one was within 3 feet of him. he spun and went for the dunk and just wasnt even close. not sure the ball even got above the rim. he smashed the ball into the rim.

his athleticism, the ability that he relied on to be effective was just totally shot.

Stats for role playing scrubs are ultra contextual. If playing with LeBron, Tucker and Ariza would be just as useless. Not sure how you guys don't get this after like 10 straight years of him marginalizing his teammates statistically.

Love is significantly better than Trevor Ariza so shove your Vorp up your ****hole.

I remember posting on this forum back then. bulls fans were like hell effin ya, we finally got rid of ben wallace. they were loling at the cavs and were like have fun with that dude. they felt they had really fleeced.

the funny thing was that cavs fans felt the absolute same way about larry hughes. we were like thank effin god we got rid of that dude.

both sides were just incredulous that another team had accepted their player.

ben wallace was the larry hughes of the bulls.

I get LeBron can't play D on every possession, but with the game on the line is too much to ask to have your "much better defender than Jordan" guard the 2nd best player in the league? Or is him slanking around Steph Curry wanting nothing to do with Durant what GOATs do?