ahh, you're right. I didn't remember that.

Just went back and looked at the box scores for that '95 series. Dude was on fire! Must've shot 70% from the field.

Swap Jordan and Labronze in the finals, how many cramps does MJ get?

Did you edit in the 2nd part to be less polite?

Anyhow, the offensive player has such a huge advantage and high level 1v1 is basically a drill where you're supposed to score every time. For an NBA player it's the job description. Lebron would do the same.

I got MJ vs LeBron in 1 on 1 as a whole new level of aids discussion. Who knows how 1 on 1 would go. Seems like both would just score every time but I guess LeBron's passing and defensive versatility not being a factor would give MJ the edge there. I mean, I guess he would win unless LeBron is just >>>>>>>>>>>>> better than him.

Haha, right? MJ would beat Bron sometimes and Bron would beat MJ sometimes. It's a dumb ass conversation that means nothing. The dumbest thing with this conversation in when people swear that their guy of choice would NEVER lose to the other in 1 on 1.

I just think Jordan people are in a bit of a crisis right now. They're the intellectually bankrupt side. When Shannon ****ing Sharpe is schooling people on TV every day then it's a bad sign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsM6kq-7nmw

Sorry to subject people to this crap, but this is what Jordan's supporters think passes as a good argument. You guys need to get better at debating/logic or this is legitimately going to slip away. By the time these idiots are done, I feel like I'm going to have to defend MJ as better than Kobe because these guys are destroying his legacy so much with their bad arguments.

Basically whoever got the ball first.

I think it was easier to make the MJ argument before bball twitter/youtube/streaming exploded. Now you're telling all these people that the 80's and 90's were these iconic era's of basketball and MJ dominated it and that just can't be topped. Well guess what? People can go on youtube and watch that stuff in about 30 seconds now and sorry, they're not all that impressed. Atleast not enough to think LeBron wouldn't dominate it too.

This thread is almost 10k posts. I'm sure somebody has said, "Why are we comparing these dudes, they don't even play the same position," right?

This is true of the internet for lots of sports arguments

I've seen it a lot when olds talk about things that are in fact total BS and never happened

Malone is
But using the warped scale you judge LeBron on he might as well be Charles Oakley

You can't really find entire games though, but that goes both ways. I grew up in Chicago but if you didn't there's a huge chunk of games you didn't get to see, and people rate MJ so highly based on highlight reels. I used to say, "Yeah, MJ is the GOAT but at the same time, somehow, wildly overrated." He's talked about as if he played against children with words like "domination" and what not.

This thread has gotten awful, but still better than the Brady vs Manning one.

Explain this supposed “warped scale...?”

Yeah, that works until it doesn't work. I mean, bball twitter/lebron GOAT slurping has only really recently become a thing to the level it is at now.

So when the MJ people say "But but 80's, 90's", it's just not gonna hold up anymore.

I can check out the '93 finals with Majerle covering Jordan when MJ had his best finals ever. Or I can check out the Jazz with Russell on him or that the Sonics best offensive player was Shawn Kemp or that Portland's 2nd best player was Terry Porter. Or that the Pistons D wasn't the greatest thing in the history of human civilization.

It's just kinda over I feel like. Maybe Bron screws up the end of his career and chooses the wrong team and his resume doesn't quite get there. But he doesn't then I think it's over as far as who the better bball player was.

People could always argue MJ had a better career because he never lost once he had a 2nd all star. But even that is kinda thin when you just stop playing by retiring twice and nobody cares about your 2nd comeback.

You can find most of the finals fairly easy.

And the biggest myth is obviously the Pistons stuff and a lot of that is on there. People see that Pistons D and you don't think "These guys suck" but it does not matchup with what the consensus opinion is about how hard that D was to penetrate.

MJ was better at the skills needed in a 1v1 but it'd be overkill and they'd still just score on each other over and over.

The Superstation for the win tho! WGN was awesome It's one of the reasons why I grew up such a big Bulls/Jordan fan in southern california pre internet/league pass. Turner Superstation was pretty sweet too. Got to see a lot of 'Nique and the 90s Braves start their run. I grew up 10 minutes from Angel Stadium but could always name more Braves than Angels. Braves were actually good and we had access. WWOR was a superstation that reached us as well but they just showed ****ty Nets games that's I really remember about that maybe Mets too but Turner and WGN definitely left the bigger impressions.

Seriously. The nostalgia factor is on 10+++ whenever older guys talk about the "Bad Boy Pistons" and how Jordan got physically brutalized by them. "Bad Boy Pistons ZOMG! how could LeBron survive that?" LMAO. Such an awful nostalgic take. LeBron is the size of Karl Malone with guard skills. He would've been fine.

Yeah, Bad Boy Pistons are definitely #1 on the MJ GOAT list.

Like no one really uses the Sonics/Suns/Jazz/Blazers, you never hear them being used as reasons MJ is the GOAT that overcame all obstacles. But Bad Boy Pistons is considered like the pinnacle of defense in the sport.

By the time Jordan finally beat them in '91, they were a 50 win team on their last legs. They lost in the 1st rd the next season and were never heard from again. They had a competitive series with the Reggie Lewis-Celtics the rd before the Bulls triumph.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...s-celtics.html

Maybe Reggie Lewis was better than LeBron (RIP)

Oladipo took him to game 7.

Stop it

Yeah the Pistons had gotten old and worn out by the time Jordan got 'em. Jordan never beat the Pistons at the peak of their powers. That was Detroit's 5th straight conference final with 3 Finals appearances in the previous 4 seasons. They had a lot of miles on their legs and it was Jordan's time. Jordan was 1-3 vs Pistons in series during that stretch.

Yeah, if you run that series back with that Cavs team and replace LeBron with a Kobe Bryant or Kevin Durant then I think they would just lose.

Similar to how KD got beat 4 straight by Memphis in '14 or how Kobe couldn't get out of the 1st rd w/o Pau and Shaq.

Like what you think you're saying is supposed to be an indictment on LeBron, but it is actually a celebration of his greatness.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...cavaliers.html

That doesn't even look real.

The misconception about the physical D then I think comes from the fact that there were more hard fouls. There was stuff that would get you ejected today but overall regular contact was far less physical. Even with hand checking, another big misconception.

Yeah Parish swung on Laimbeer during a game. And obviously for a long time those were the only clips you would really see when people wanted to highlight how physical the game was. You would just see the Laimbeer/Parish scuffle, Bird/Dr J, Bad Boys Pistons stuff and then in the 90's the stuff with the Knicks/Heat.

But you would never see the other 46 minutes of the game where everyone is playing at what looks like pickup game intensity.