saying lebron is top 5 is much, much, much more accurate than saying he is top 1. People love to use the omg bulk stats argument to put lebron ahead of MJ but forget that as of this moment he is behind Kareem in almost every category besides assists.

kareem has played 400 more games then lebron or MJ (although kareem has very similar # of playoff games of which lebron destroys him in most stats other than rebounds and blocks).....i'm not sure how you arrived at the bulk stat argument but if you look at rate stats and usage, lebron and MJ are way above Kareem.

no that's moronic. but it will be a legitimate knock on lebron unlike 98% of the nonsense lebron haters spew.

The point is there are people who think LeBron James is the greatest player ever and those same people think the literal greatest player of all time shouldn't be favored against THIS Celtics G-League team. Like that really says it all

there are people on both sides of the argument who think asinine things.

Of course the cavs should have been big favorites to start this series.

:thumb

Lol Victor

No i dont forget, it already been adress it.
Not only by taking 1 player out, you can make conclusion like that.
A lot more factor must taking into account.
Support cast is one, etc.
its like the butterfly effects.
and the proof is this, warriors add durant in 2017 and the warriors won less games ....got it ?
Unless your telling me warriors are a weaker team with durant ?
people gives so much value for win game in the regular season wow.
Remember the raptors this year swept in 4 .....

yeah a 17 ppg pippen in 91, 36th scorer in the league.
Pippen was already an HoF at that time.
JFC...

Kevin love has reach much better numbers than pippen but it got worst when he join lebron.
Ho yeah Lebron makes his teammates better...lol
Pippen in 1991 was not the pippen of 1995 for example.



Jordan beats the mav and beat the spurs in 2013 !
And btw you have no freakin idea on what your talking about.
Jordan never face a better team than warrior ?
LOL.
Celtcis had 5 HoF and pistons had 4 HoF in the 1980 era
Hell the celtics Jordan lost to, it took magic/karrem ( 2 of the top 4 or 5 All time player) + worthy to beat those celtics!

Yes the warrior last year might be the goat team but please...2016 ? its laughable.


btw, no one holds it against lebron last year or 2007...

no you don't get it. my point wasn't that the bulls were better off without jordan- it was that his team without him was still good enough to win 55 games when he retired. lebron spent 8 years playing with absolute trash in cleveland.

i was referring specifically to last years warriors


"Jordan never face a better team than warrior ?

Yes the warrior last year might be the goat team but please...2016 ? its laughable."

well if last years "warrior" might be the goat team then jordan never faced a better team dummy.

lots of people hold 2007 and last year against lebron.


lmao@ even mentioning kevin love and scottie pippen in the same breath. just stop posting.

Cavs were dogs to toronto.

idk why you write in some bizarre haiku format, but everything I've been able to parse from your post is total nonsense.

GSW won more games before KD because they were going for the regular season record. Since then they've been resting guys, had minimal motivation and haven't had perfect health.

On some level you know this because everyone knows this, but it shows how disingenuous this garbage is.

Im saying this because some here , like victor , keep saying 2016 warriors were the goat team only because they reach 73 wins ....
And no one in the lebron side rebut him so il’ Keep it writing it !

this non sense must stop ..

Literally nobody thinks that. They dominated the league in 2015, won the title without much of a challenge and then followed it up with setting the record for most regular season wins.

Anyway, Lebron > Jordan and it's mostly because the Jordan slurpers all appear to be huge idiots

You must stop.

GSW were a very good team in 2016 and obviously faltered in the playoffs. Lebron GOATed and Curry was hurt + the suspension. In the same vein though, the Cavs lost Love and Kyrie for the finals in 2015 and yet won 2 games with a pretty ****ty cast.

2017 playoff team is obviously built better for the playoffs and lost 1 game on their run. I'm pretty sure most people think 2016 was a pretty damn good team but 2017 team is better because you add durant and subtract barnes is a huge upgrade. Most teams thought the 2016 Warriors are going to win a title and basically almost did despite Curry's struggles. I think it's a pretty big accomplishment to beat them especially down 3-1.

If lebron loses this series it will be his fourth series where he lost as a really big favorite. How many times did MJ lose when favored? 95 Orlando maybe. That's probably it.

Didn't realize the Cavs were a really big favorite vs Boston.

How many playoff series did MJ win as a dog? I'm pretty sure what I've heard it's 0 and I'm pretty sure Lebron has won a few that's he's been a dog in including the Toronto series and the 2016 finals where they were huge dogs.

Ok fair enough !

But for my information , how many years Jordan play with utter trash like your saying ?
6 years , his team not him, getting destroy by goat teams .
Did he stay ?
As soon pippen became decent in 1990-91 , Jordan won .

Yes I put love and pippen in the same sentence because we are talking early pippen vs early love in their first 5-6 years !
Pippen only became good like in 1992 defensively ( first 1st team all stars) and anything else first team all star in 1994...

Well when u practice hard with the goat , nothing else than being great defensively happen I guess.


Strangely , pippen got lot better has the years past while with lebron , Kevin love once he join lebron he dramatically decline ....

I wonder why if Lebron makes his teammates better ?

Well when you practice with goat Jordan all those year I guess you get better while seem that truth doesn’t hold with lebron .

Won as a dog to OKC in '12 and Pistons in '07 as well

LeBron fans using him being a constant underdog as a PRO for him being GOAT. Classic Bronslap.

..

You keep saying Love has gotten worse as a player with LeBron. He hasn't. His role has changed. When you go from being the #1 to the #3 (he also had to share touches with Kyrie) your numbers are going to drop some. You had to have already known that though.

Pipped joined Jordan as a rookie. I would hope that he would be getting better every year. Jordan left Pippen for two years and Pippen was fine. His offensive numbers were almost identical. LeBron has had #2 scorers that fell off the face of the earth as soon as they weren't with him anymore.

Problem with this is ...
Jordan rarely was a dog and when he was, it was vs team stack with futur HoF except his first rookie year .
After that he always was the favorite , as the goat should be right ?
It’s like blaming Jordan he never won vs a 73 games ....
Guess what ?
Because he was on that team because he was the goat , he made that team awesome !

All lebron fans keep saying , Jordan leaves and his team doesn’t reach the finals ...
If his team so great , why didn’t they win at least the EC, even when Jordan return at like 60% strength, they couldn’t reach the final either...

It took prime Jordan and when he was , no one could touch him !

But yeah your right , Jordan never under achieved but lebron did !

i dont know why i always get sucked into clicking on this thread and reading it..

no one is going to change anyone's bias or opinion. its nostalgia vs. recency.

ftr- im on the recency side. seems silly to compare when over half the league when jordan started playing probably couldn't even make a squad in today's NBA. that's how sports are, humans get stronger and faster, recovery gets better, training gets better, equipment gets better.

Well was James worthy #1 or 2 on the lakers when he won mvp final ?
Is love #3 this year because his number didn’t seem to go up ?

Like I said pippen wasn’t a factor before 1991 and he was at best an ok factor where lebron had much better teammates than Jordan had .
In the second 3peats yeah ok pippen is great but we’re talking very different players of pippen in 91 and 96 (even 94 when Jordan left).

All good points Capone for when u go from #1 to #2 or 3 stats suffer .
I agree .

So can we do it in reverse ?
We all can agree pippen was #1 when Jordan left ?
And what happen ?
Pippen got very slightly better stats ( around 21 pts, 8rbs,5assist) the 2 year Jordan left .

I mean pippen seem to be the player that suffer the less of being 2 than number 1.
Like he was as good with Jordan then when he was not .

Are you telling me lebron never had a better #2 , even when is number 2 or 3 (like love) were in the number 1 spot on heir own team ?

Pippen was not bad of course but what help pippen is that he was a perfect fit for Jordan but not he most talented than any teamates lebron had .

Pippen might of been the «*worst*» successful #2 in the game !
So when I read Jordan had like one of the goat player to help him win im like wtf ...
Jordan with any good #2 was enough for him to win .

Yeah Pippen was just okay in the first 3 peat, yeah just a 2 all nba teams and 3 all defensive teams and he also had an all defensive appearance (1st team) in the year before they won their first title.

Also when you have a GOAT offensive player, one of the GOAT wing defenders as your #2 option is likely more impactful then having another great wing with many of the same traits as your #1. Wade is great and definitely in a vacuum better than Pippen especially as a #1 option but as a #2 option with Lebron, Wade is not ideal.

I'm pretty sure if Draymond was an offensive stud he'd be much less impactful for the Warriors as he is as their do it all defensive guru that he is now.