Yeah, Larry Hughes was in his seventh season an outlier when it comes to his stats. Keep repeating his basic stat line. Yes second year pippen was worse than **** Hughes at year 6 and then pippen became a HOfer with stats that Larry Hughes could only dream of with a sustained defensive level that we've never seen while Larry went to complete **** the rest of his career of which some of those years were not with the cavs or Lebron. Yes the cavs had a better squad pre 1989 and also made the finals and won a few playoff series. After 1989 there's no contest the bulls >>> cavs especially sans their respective stars.

Would you take two time allstar z over 4 time all NBA grant who also was in an allstar game?

Larry Hughes was a career 48% ts% player which is god awful. He also averaged career highs in ppg that year and never was that close before or after that year. He was a chucker and checkers aren't very valuable on title contending teams especially when Hughes' defensive levels never hit his Washington peak again.

that's nothing, considering the gap in turnovers, time of possession, scoring, and scoring burden

those things FAR outweigh a 15% assist edge

and of course, when jordan had a point guard-level time of possession like lebron, he passed way better than lebron..

tbh, lebron's 7 apg is marginally above average for a point guard, whereas jordan averaged 11 apg both times he played pg


huh?

jordan was forced to play some point guard in the 1991 Finals because he had to matchup with magic for most of the series..

and he was forced to play point guard in 1989 because the starting pg went down with injury

otoh, lebron chooses to play point guard.. he chooses to be a 2nd point guard on the floor, thus sucking up the available time of possession from teammates and lowering their assists..

with teammates getting less assists, the TEAM always ranks low in assists and teamwork, thus necessitating excessive talent to win (aka team-hopping)

are you stupid?. again you want to take credit for MJ being an amazing passer and then put down for Lebron being one. you can't have it both ways and you always do this. some how jordan wins 6 titles yet has horrible teammates who are always worse than Lebrons yet some how he does it. do you realize what you're doing? I can't imagine you're this stupid, you're just this focused on trolling.

team is nearly average in assists per game and yet they are #3 in Orat the last 3 years with the Cavs and 5th, 2nd, 8th and 3rd when he was on the Heat and 4th his last year on the Cavs. So despite them clearly not being able to pass (they are typically in the middle of the league), they some how score in the top percentile of the league and are even better when Lebron is on the court vs when he is off it.

The issue the past few years hasn't been the Cavs O, it has been their D especially in the finals.

why would we leave out the stars?

by definition, role players are largely replaceable.. its the TOP talent that matters the most

and bosh/love were superstar #1 options with better stats than pippen ever had and were arguably the best at their position, just like pippen.. so they nearly offset pippen all by themselves, and yet there's still wade/kyrie

so it's obvious that lebron had more help.. lebron needed 2 other superstars to win 3 rings, whereas jordan 3-peated with just 1 star


no way... excluding each team's top 3 players:

tristan thompson, korver, richard jefferson, jr snith, shumpert, and deron williams

>

cartwright, paxson, and i can't even remember the remaining players because they were literal nobodies..

the 2nd three-peat team isn't much better.. so lebron had more help... top to bottom.. the top talent, and the role players


if we were drafting a team from scratch?

c'mon bro.. you dont start teams with play-finishers
.

The warriors were a a 115/104 Orat/Drat team in the regular season, Cavs were a 113/110.

Vs Ind 119/115
Vs Tor 120/104
Vs Bos 128/107
vs Warriors 114/121

Like their O rating is higher than it was during the regular season but lower than it was in the playoffs vs the Warriors which is expected. But still the Cavs average was 10 points higher than the average team did against the Warriors during the regular season. The Cavs D rating was never that great but better in the playoffs except they got their **** kicked in by the Warriors O in the finals.

true story indeed, their high o-rating isn't due to good teamwork.

therefore, the logical conclusion is that it's due to talent

specifically, their big 3 superstars and plethora of good role players - they're the only team with 3 all-stars, along with warriors

since their offense is based on talent, they lose to teams that use better teamwork to offset a talent deficit or stalemate (i.e 2011 and 2014 finals)



nonsense - that's just an excuse for the team failing to achieve a 120 ortg like their opponent

you can't get a 120 ortg with talent alone - you need great teamwork..

too bad lebron lowers his teammates assists, and therefore the team's.. and as remarkable as that sounds, it's fact

I'm referring to the Cavs first team which was clearly not that great. Again please follow along. The Current Cavs roster is fine. I'm referring to Lebron and MJ as superstars; So Pippen/Grant are part of the Bulls and Mo/Z/Old Shaq/Hughes/old ben wallace are part of the Cavs.

love the shifting. it really is hilarious.

So you're saying they have great teamwork being that they averaged 120 ortg in playoffs?

I'm confused

found it

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

lol 609

THIS x a million, its all the evidence people should need that MJ is the GOAT, yet there is tons more

609 vs Capone really is epic though...

bosh and love played for 13 seasons before meeting up with lebron and made the playoffs exactly 2 times and never made the 2nd round. lolololol at acting like they are some amazing superstars.

and love didnt even play in the 2015 finals.

and if this cavs team was able to face the scrub teams that jordan faced then they would win 3+ titles anyway. too bad they must face the ultimate goat team.

still, lebron took out that goat team with an epic finals which is something that jordan never would have been able to achieve.

That much is clear by now.

You're hilarious fam. If LeBron faced the teams Jordan faced he would be getting sonned before the finals instead of the games biggest stage.

LeBron "took out the goat team" like a lottery winner made a great investment.

LeBron had a couple good games after the softest suspension in the history of the league was levied and three key pieces were injured and could barely play. That's not impressive.

The series was a culmination of extremely unlucky individual events parlayed together. Still came down to one shot to bail out a pathetic disgrace to complete the one outer.
Funniest thing is how people legit can be dumb and deluded enough to actually be proud of that.

To anyone who isnt result oriented, understands the game and probability even a little bit--it isn't an impressive "accomplishment". Of course Jordan could also hit a one outer.

AJ,

The Woyas teams of the past 2 years are the GOAT teams. No need to denigrate your team to go at LeBron. I would agree LeBron got pretty fortunate to win in 2016 but it was nonetheless a historic performance/victory. Leading the Finals in every major statistical category while playing elite defense and beating a 73 win team is objectively impressive. Not like MJ didn't run hot/get lucky on occasion. All the GOATs do to some extent.

I liked how the tall tales grow. it goes from curry being slightly dinged to 3 major players being injured. next all of those players will be playing on virtual broken legs. and then the whole team is suffering from super food poisoning.

and the meantime the guy who was known for kicking dudes in the nuts and was leading the league in technical fouls is on the way to being named mr sportsmenship in the nba. no, in the whole world. hell, he should be sainted.

heres the thing tho. curry wasnt hurt. weak willed mental midget draymond green went on super tilt in the face of lebrons goatness and got what he finally deserved.

I like how you went from saying someone is being stupid in one direction of this debate and then followed it up by being equally stupid in the other direction.

Great work.

Curry was hurt.
Green is not a weak willed mental midget (or did you forget how he performed in Game 7?)

Green is a mental midget, or whatever word you want to use to describe someone that can't control their emotions on the court and it negatively affects the team. The refs actually give him a ton of leeway with regard to calling technicals on him. He committed stupid techs/flagrant over the course of the playoffs and it caught up to him. Obv his performance in Game 7 was super clutch and impressive tho.

Curry averaged 26.4 ppg on 60 TS% after he returned vs POR, a decline on his regular season numbers, but that's standard for most in the playoffs as you're facing stiffer competition

He may not have been 100% but acting like he could barely play is lol - he still put up great numbers. No one was talking about his crippling injury when he lit up Portland in that OT game and dad dicked OKC in games 5-7 (33/7/7 on 65 TS%)

Funny how no one ever said greatness was measured by just making the finals until Lebron started racking up the finals losses.

Well Lebron has made 7 straight NBA finals and besides James Jones is the only guy to make 5+ since the 1960s Celtics when there were 8-9 teams in the entire league.

Usually that kind of historic accomplishment deserves merit.

Yeah no other top 5 hof could of done the same thing in that east ass weak conference....
just glad finals exist to show he couldn't do it in the west ...

What I find amusing tho is lot of Bron fan keep saying that Jordan did not had to face "tough" competition in the finals but gladly point that reaching 7 finals is amazing , disregarding the competition lebron had to face.

Funny tho, soon he faced legit competition , 3-5 , oops ...
Far from 7-0 (final EC)

He's made 7 in a row and no one else has made more than 4 since the 60s. It's not an easy accomplishment even factoring in the weak conference (which has really only been super weak the last 1-2 years)

You can debate on how much making it and losing matters to you but in this era of NBA it's a near impossible achievement

Most Lebron fans will concede he had easier paths to the Finals than MJ, however he has faced tougher competition in the actual Finals for sure

Golden State is the only team he has faced that's better. And maybe SA in 2007.

SA = Utah
Dallas/OKC = any of the other ones