Capone there is a difference .
You don't have the physical ability in poker .

In sports not that you just need to think the right play, you have to execute it as well .
Big difference .

You know where you have to make the shot , 5 sec left on the clock and all your body just tighten up instead of being relax in the mid of the game .

In poker you don't have that, especially online.

I just do what you do.
And it works !

You have to execute poker as well. Everything comes down to %s in poker and sports. Poker is just easier to track the actual rates. Most sports, the sample sizes aren't large enough.

STATS are there for a reason.
Does anyone in the world think that lebron did not play good enough in this 2017 series?
I don't think so and I don't think anyone would hold it against him .
Even the contrary , had he won again , he might of legimately considered to be the goat , even with a losing record in the finals...
Especially if he would one this year and the next .

Stop, pushing chips in the middle of the table or making a 3pts shot is not the same thing.
poker is all in the head, not sports.
You have to add the physical ability in sports that might fail you due to pressure.
Pretty obvious....

Remember korver wide open on the 3pts line, end game...

You didn't answer my question.

Good work.

True BUT, in any discipline, one common thing always seem to happen.
Greatness always seem to be lucky.
Probably because when you are great, you always are able to put yourself in a good spot that would put chance more on your side, like in poker...

Yes, has more trilas are made, variance decline.
Jordan is 6-0 and lebron is 3-5, you see...

One day, after multiple trials, results MUST be applied, even if luck will always play a bit part in it.

What i am saying and i hope you do not disagree is, do you really think the ONLY difference between Jordan success and Lebron is that Jordan was more lucky than lebron?

And people constantly say LeBron is 3-5 in Finals. So they do hold it against him.

wow i thought i did...

Lebron had great stats in 2016 and with a loss with great stats in 2017, no one thinks this lost would count as factor of failure to be the goat.
Even the contrary, if he won it would of been a true amazing feat ...

But again, great player always find them self in lucky spot as well and turn the tides on there side usually.

But what you pointing out is interesting tho, it is more difficult to evaluate lebron greatness with Jordan because well you said it....
Jordan almost always take the shots while lebron pass more....
And Jordan never went to a 7 games NBA finals.
I mean when you are great you try to avoid tough spot i suppose...

Did Lebron won a lucky final with a miracle shot by one of his teamates ?
Still we credit a win for it.
After many trials, it balance out.
and after 8 finals, we should start considering that it is not only chance that Lebron lost, somewhere with 5 defeat, some of them should be on his head....
Anyway Lebron is not done yet right ?
Still got some years in front of him with more trials.

My exact quote was...

"So, LeBron played well in 2016. But had Kyrie missed and Steph made, he didn't?"

And for some reason you seem to want to talk about 2017.

Make no mistake LeBron would have heard it if those things had of happened.

MJ's guys constantly bring up his 3-5 record. No one says "Well, he's really only to blame for 2011", which is a fair assessment of what actually happened in those 8 Final appearances.

So, MJ is great because Steve Kerr and Paxon hit Game winners in Game 6, so he avoids a tough spot?

Unless you are far superior to the other team, there is luck in any series. MJ ran well. He was lucky in that sometimes when he didn't bring it, his teammates did. Sometimes LeBron has bought it when his teammates didn't. And visa versa.

Winning is important. But it can't be seen as the only thing.

All true but do you really think in a game 7 ! Jordan would agree to let Kerr take the last shot ?
there is tough spot and TOUGH ( game 7) spot...

Yes Jordan ran well but like, contrary of lebron, someday we should stop saying he ran well after 6 trials...

That is my point, there is a tangent we must take into account after multiple trials you know.

And Jordan is positif while lebron is negatif...
And chance been on both side.

Oh, you mean it was better when MJ passed to Luc Longley who had to shoot a 20 footer with 1 second on the shot clock (35 seconds left in the game) of Game 7 of the ECF against Indy.

Go have a look at it. Why don't you criticize Jordan for this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaEDG5Yxu4o

Are you kidding ?
I mean they up 4 pts why wouldn't he ?
And when I bring korver up , it is about pressure tighten up your physical ability.
Making it more difficult to succeed.
So pressure in poker is not the same in sports , that was my point anyway.
I mean in poker you won't fail to make a "physical raise" even tho you know it is the right play ...

So yeah, in sports psychological pressure is far more present than in poker only because of the physical action of doing the right play.
So only the real best don't crack under pressure .

"Yeah, he passes in game 6s, but do you really think he'd make the best play in a game 7?!"
I truly didn't think non-trolls could write things like this.

So passing while you are being defended by DPOY and another All NBA defensive talent near by, being forced into a jumper (the weakest part of your game), to a Top 10 shooter of all time - not okay

Passing to a guy who you could probably count the number of times on one hand that he's made a 20 foot jumper, while being single covered when you are probably the best fade away mid range jump shooter in the history of the game - That's okay.

Seriously?

On the poker/basketball analogy. Yes, physical nature/talent comes into play a lot more in basketball, but it's not 100%. Jordan wasn't the dream team blowing teams away. You need a little luck when teams are evenly matched.

Michael Jordan isn't magical because Paxon hit a 3. Or Kerr hit a long two. He's great because he got them there. But you need some luck. Like poker.

It is your opinion. ( Lebron to Korver play ?)
Imo the right play was to ejected the guy from the game by forcing him to foul you if lebron would had attack the basket.
it was not a mistake by lebron to pass to korver but imo a better play was present, which was to attack the basket and make them foul you to go the FT line.
But lebron do not like the FT line that much in the 4th quarter, you know...
But it is lebron style and it is ok, but if his style do a lost, he needs to take some blame for it.
Like the style of jordan was to make the shot or attack the basket ( not passing) and if he failed it was totally on him.

Did lebron got lucky when Allen made the shot, yes but great players are able to put the team in a situation to turn the "chance" in their favor, and we gladly give him the win for allen success...
But when he failed well heh, you need to blame him as well...


Like i said, usually the better player always seem to be more lucky then the others.
whether it is in poker, sports,etc.
That is why multiple trials are needed.
at 6-0 with 6 mvp, i would stop blaming chance for his success.
Kareem, another all time great ( probably top 5) have 6 nba titles, but he got 4 loss as well you know...
Lebron , another all time great ( probably top 2 or 3) and his got multiple lost as well.
Kobe, another one who had the luxury to play with shaq and have 5 wins, but still got 2 loss.
Magic 5 wins but 4 loss.
Elgin baylor 0-8
jerry west 1-8
wilt chamberlain 2-4


Point is, all the all time great that got multiple success with lot of trials never were able to be even close to achieve jordans success, you have to put some value on that and disregard chance at some point.

/thread

+1 for deep metapost.

Yes, you put value on it. It's why MJ is seen as the GOAT by the vast majority.

But MJ is 6 of 15 not 6 of 6. He didn't win every time he went on the court. He still needed luck/teammates to actually win.

Doesn't make people better...

But makes them play-finishes

Holy **** @ the JR Smith splits lol

Well ok, if you expect a guy at 39-40 years ( still was playing good at 20-22 ppg 5rbs and assist) to be the goat and win on the same basis.

By using only Your metric, Magic is the best than...
5 wins and 4 lost, 9 nba finals appearance in 12 years, goat !

Or even Russel...

ps: imo makes no sense but w.e.
Success should have more value .

Can we start the MJ vs RJ Barrett thread?

Labron came up short.