The argument earlier in this thread is that the 3 time dynasty >>>>>>> losing in the 2nd round. I obviously think there is a difference between the two teams; but I don't think the difference is that great. to win that many games when losing the GOAT is insanity. What would people think if the Bulls had won a title or lost in the finals in 7 games like the Knicks did?

Yeah, I know statistically the team only lost a few more games than the year before, but it did feel like more than that. I never thought they were going to win it all that year.

1993 felt paced when they won 57 games. I mean both MJ/Pip coming off the Olympics. 2 chips in the pocket etc etc. Much like Cavs this year. I know the Cavs won 51 games, but the Cavs were a 60 win team (or the equivalent to).

And, yes, they took the Knicks to 7 games. Amazing effort. But if you run that series a bunch of times, I think the Knicks win 80-90% of them.

I mean no one thinks the the Mavs in 14 were the second best team in the league and could have won it all because they took the SA to 7 games in the first round.

Those losses are part of what fueled Jordan's competitiveness and will to win. He learned from his losses. He practiced harder, rode his teammates etc...
Those losses are what brought these "intangibles " that you don't understand into play.

Lebron needs to see what he is doing isn't working, and make adjustments on his intangibles but he doesn't have the mindset, mental strength, work ethic or attitude to do it.
Lebrons god given talent is all he has. He's like the spoiled rich kid growing up that had everything so he thinks he doesn't have to work for it.
That's why he wanted a championship made team handed to him on a silver platter in Miami. This alone tarnished his image forever in my mind.

And even when he decided to go back to Cleveland it's only because he thought he had a better chance to win there.
Lebron is all about Lebron, taking the easy way out time and time again.

There are no shortcuts when it comes do being the GOAT.

When you have more god given talent than anyone in the history of the nba you have no excuses, you figure it out!!!

Jordan did!!!

Well the SRS was definitely a big difference despite the 2 game difference in regular season record; so the Bulls in the 2nd year ran well. The Bulls went from the best team to a top 5 team. I don't think there are many teams that could lose their best player and remain a top 5-10 team.

Jordan figured it out when his team got talent and became great. You keep stretching the truth. Yes Jordan probably did somethings that took his team over the edge but I doubt it much more than what any other great does for their team. Jordan just ran really good in the finals; he never played another really great team in their prime; he never had a serious injury to key player on his team. He was also lucky enough to never will his way to the finals and have to deal with a team that could have overmatched his team. Imagine if Jordan had a 6-1 finals record; it would be the end of the world.

If Durant left the Warriors the Warriors would be a Top 2 team (probably Top 1!)

You have to credit the Bulls management that season MJ left. They added some solid pieces in Kukoc, Kerr and Longley. Obviously not going to replace the GOAT, but great additions.

I'd think the 2011-13 Heat would have made the second round of the playoffs comfortably if LeBron wasn't there.

I think the 94 and 95 Bulls were probably a Top 5 to 10 team without MJ.

Yeah imagine

Imagination is all you have left in this argument

Again give Lebron Jordan's mindset and you would have the perfect GOAT

Give Jordan Lebron's mindset and he would have been a Vince Carter type player at best

An extreme example but I can't think of many others where the best player leaves on a title team and they just are still contending. Durant is the obvious example of a team with too much riches; most in NBA history.

Like I mentioned before, I didn't actually think the Bulls would win it that year, so wouldn't have said they were contenders.

They were in the 5 to 10 bracket of teams for me that year. Still a hell of an achievement.

As you mentioned their SRS was a lot lower (11th highest in the league). And they definitely overachieved (their PW was 50 wins). And their margin of victor was 11th best.

Full credit to push the Knicks to 7 but. Amazing effort.

You think Lebron could have won in 2015 without Kyrie and Love by playing better and you call me the moron? Man you really are dumb as sh!!t. Man, going 35/13/8 and people expect 45/15/11.

I don't think any other anti Lebron guy think he could have won the 2015 Finals. Congrats.

Btw I admitted I was wrong saying Kobe was better a few pages back.
So you can't hold that against me.

Just admit you're wrong about Lebron, that he is nowhere near the GOAT and I won't hold it against you.

Also Jordan has said that these losses fueled him. These intangibles are not made up.
Obviously he has something Lebron doesn't, and mindset, attitude, mental strength, and work ethic are in my opinion what Lebron lacks.

I mean you tell me what Lebron is missing. He had more god given talent than any man that has ever walked the face of the earth and he had an all star supporting cast.
Why can't he make it work?
Yes, 3 championships is very good, but 3-8 in the finals is not.
He is not only getting beat in the finals, he is being dominated.

So I ask you again, why can't your self proclaim GOAT do anything about it?

If you don't know the answer it is......

Wait for it......


INTANGIBLES!!!!!
Ding Ding Ding

Imagine that LMAO

Thank you, thank very much.....

So why didn't the losses in 89 fuel him to win it in 90?

I mean he lost a **** load before that.

He's "3-8" now--11 finals appearances is pretty sweet; not 3-5. I get it. You're just not good at facts and good at making up stuff that fits the narrative. I'm glad you keep writing narrative and yet don't understand you're actually just making stuff up. You have no real reasons, just made up ones; i.e. 'intangibles" bro; so it can't really be argued.

It was all a combination of everything that happened to Jordan. From being cut from his high school varsity team to those losses.
It all accumulated to make him the competitive psycho that he was.

That was a typo, you know I meant 3-5( 8 appearances)
Lol a typo is your best argument

Lebron is going to lose again next year too!!! Lmao

Better work on those intangibles

So it eventually just accumulated; but just at the right time that coincided with Pippen/Grant/etc. getting better. Weird how that works.

If Lebron finds a way to beat the warriors next year I will put him in the discussion for the GOAT.
It would be stupid not to.

But if he is 3-6 after next year(most likely btw) then you and everyone else need to stfu!!

It's called chemistry, stay with the same team long enough you get that.
Intangibles

Jordan>>>LeBron

6-0>>>>>>>3-5

6/13>>>>>>>>>>3/14

You really don't see the difference between drafting the only other 2 good players and bringing them up through your system and the GOAT making the better players along the way vs. twice jumping ship to a team with 2 established bonafide all-stars who are top 15-20 in the NBA AND in the prime of their already solidified careers?

It's a different era; yes I get it; it's lame what he did. I'm sure he would have preferred the natural route but it wasn't happening in Cleveland and they weren't good enough or smart enough in Cleveland to draft the right players to be around Lebron. I'm sure if there was a Pippen/Grant/Rodman equivalent in Cleveland that came right to him it would have been great. Durant basically had that and still couldn't win it all because his ownership was so stupid.

Should players like Magic/Bird get more credit because they went to teams with a lot of talent or Jordan who's team eventually added a ton of talent?

There are issues which have been apparent when you jump ships to a team that's been gutted; they lack depth and they lack the chemistry which the Bulls seemed to have. It's not like he joined the Warriors or let's say the Spurs when Duncan was still around or Boston when they had the big 4; he joined up with 2 studs but the rest of the team wasn't set and had to be figured out. They didn't have time to figure things out; they had to win immediately and that isn't always easy. Yes they put pressure on themselves and they definitely fell on their face twice in the finals; once against an okay finals team that got hot and another time against a very good Spurs team that torched them when Wade was hurt/struggling along with much of the rest of the squad.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but this is actually one of your better post. If we were in a bar and you said this I would buy you a beer.

Jordan's team didn't "add a ton of talent" LeBron Jeams was "added talent" to already super talented teams (or in the case of Cavs 2.0 was added talent to a team with a star and then "added talent" in Kevin Love, trading the #1 pick for him).

Jordan stayed with a ****ty team and they DRAFTED two players in the #5 and #10 picks who BECAME a "ton of talent" (in Pippen's case). Like this cannot be overlooked. Jordan never got an established top 25 player in the league to come to him, and by time Rodman got there to extend the 3-peat after the LOL baseball year, he was 34 years old and past his prime