Ray Allen scored 0 points in game 7 in 2013. And LeBron had 16 points in 4th quarter of game 6 when starting down 11.

LeBron bailed them out, not the other way around.

And by defer, does that mean pass the ball? I guess only when LeBron gets an assist its a knock on him. When Jordan defers to Kerr for the last shot, its GOAT intangibles amirite?

can't believe poker players can't see through this skip bayless idiocy about the ray allen shot when lebron dominated the 4th quarter and ray just hit a lucky 3 at the end

The reason more players have better numbers now is because the 11th-30th best players in the NBA are wayyyyyyyy better than they were then.

this is a remarkably bad post even for this thread

Exactly. It's not that it's easier to score 20ppg a game now it's just that guys are better now on average so you have more that are capable of doing it.

If Ray Allen doesn't hit the 3 after LeChoke missed the 3 drawn up for him there is no game 7.

Defer means standing in the corner in the final minutes of Game 7 while Kyrie Irving delivers you a title

Ray Allen doesn't get a chance to hit that shot if Lebron doesn't score 16 in the 4th. Your points continue to be AIDs.

Lebron scored 11 in the 4th against the Warriors to "close them out," Kyrie scored 5 the 4th Q; again I'm not sure who is saving who. Lebron even hit the last FT and points that game to put the game out of hand by 4. Kyrie "won" the game but it's not like the game couldn't have gone to OT.

Yea that's totally fair re: Ray Allen. I'm not making the case for Ray Allen being the greatest player ever. I'm am making the case that LeBron has been underwhelming in the last 2 minutes of close games in the 8 finals he's played in and has either shied away from those moments or come up short. Unless hitting FTs to ice games is a GOAT thing now.

Again we're comparing Jordan and LeBron. LeBron had huge stats and 4th quarter but so did Jordan.

GOAT type players score 16 in the 4th against really good teams to give their team a shot. they pass the ball to make the best decision, that's what GOATs do. They don't always hit the big shot; they make good decisions where they aren't always hitting the big shot.

You're making a poor case. You ignore facts and go straight narrative. Yes, Lebron has shied always from the shot at times and other times hasn't had a shot--first series vs the Spurs, vs the Mavs and the 3rd time against the Spurs where the team had no shot. Likewise, he came up huge a few of the finals like the 2nd Spurs series and the 2nd Warriors series.

2017--One close game Bron comes up short-team had little shot at title anyways, they lose--Bron scores 7 in the 4Q and misses 2 shots in the last 2 minutes and has a bad TOV.
2016-Only one close game in the finals, Lebron scores 11 in the 4Q and the final point of the series, they win..
2015-Two close games, Lebron scores 11 in the 4Q and 3 in OT all from FT line, they win; Other game scores last 6 points from line from Cavs in the last minute and 9 in total for the last 2 and 17 in the fourth.

Don't have time to go further back right now but in the last 3 series in the warriors, only 4 close games and he's come up big in 3 of them. Again your narrative and your research is really poor.

Don't mean a thang
If you don't get the rang

GOAT players own the climactic moments

I think its true to a extent yes. Then you have guys like Wiggins scoring nearly 24ppg or Derozen scoring 27 ppg who i dont think are very good at basketball at all. I think Coaches know how to gameplan to get more efficient looks for star players nowadays then in the 90s. 3pt shot is used much more often which in turn makes star players numbers look better. Games are called diff rules are change etc. Game evolves. So its a combo of players are better but also players are used much better.

Jordan never deferred to open teammates to take a game winning shot tho, amirite?

NC was the best team. He averaged the 3rd most points, on 3rd most attempts bla bla. He was def 3rd option.

Look how open those guys are, clearly a beautifully designed play calculated and executes perfectly by MJ


Not like the hurried, panicky choke-passes that LeShook serves up time and time again under pressure

The greatest play in finals history belongs to LeBron.

Probably the most important NBA moment ever.

Lol opinions

That's true. Those guys are really wide open in those Bulls pics. MJ GOAT

Here's another angle.

This moment is more historic / difficult to do than Jordan's last shot. Climactic.

lol defense

Correct. He never stood in the corner while his teammates created game winning shots all on their own. Dude required 3 guys on his to kick it out to Steve Kerr for a 15 footer.

But if you're going to play that game then show me the games where LeBron DID take over and own the last moments of a game in the 8 NBA Finals he's played in. Now go a step further and hit me with his game winners in one of those 8 finals

Still dude it's Jordan. Kerr would constantly advocate for himself and it took time for MJ to pass in gw situations

Thread is certainly terrible, but mostly because of all the posters who take it seriously. It's quite entertaining if you don't take it seriously and occasionally feed the fish who do. Comparing Durant to Dominique is probably the most closely exact parallel to comparing Lebron to Jordan imaginable. They're the contemporaries who aren't quite Lebron and Jordan.

I think the thread is wildly entertaining and actually quite good. I find that my opinion sways with each fine point being made in either direction.

Well done lads.