Durant joining the Warriors is not the same as when Lebron joined the Heat. Durant joined his rival team when OKC was 1 game away from beating them the year before after being up 3-1 in the series. Its unprecedented for a player to join a team he was always losing to. It would be like Karl Malone joining Jordan back in the day because he could never beat Jordan in the finals. Except the fact Durant had the capabilities to beat his rival. Instead Durant took the easy way out.

When Lebron joined the Heat everyone hated him besides Miami Heat fans just as they do Durant. He would get booed at every arena. He was the villain of the NBA. Everyone was rooting against him in their first finals against the Mavericks to which they eventually lost to. But eventually everyone got over it and hes back to being one of the most popular players in the NBA.

Cavs are not a super-team. Lebron and Kyrie does not equal a super-team. Kevin Love does not count, hes a bum who's inconsistent. Kevin Love is only an all star on bum teams. All of his flaws show tremendously on a good team. Only thing he can do semi-consistently is get rebounds.

He was an all-star on this year's Cavs team haha. Averaged 19 & 11 this season! Obvious bum tho!

The lengths LeBron fans will go to discredit every team & player LeBron has played with is utterly amazing.

In the last 2 NBA finals (11 games) KL is averaging 12/9/1 with porous defense and 37/33/80% shooting splits.

He was good in this Finals overall. As a third option he was just fine. GameScore of 14.7. Compare that to the third best on the Warriors (Klay) at 10.8.

He was **** last year though.

Im not a Lebron fan.

Where was that 19 and 11 in the finals?

I give season stats. You reply with an 11 game samples size.

Why don't we take his last 18 playoff games, instead. 17 & 11 (16 & 11 in the finals this year).

Or last year's playoff average (20 games). 15 & 9.

Funny how bosh and love were both considered top 10-15 players before they played with lebron then all of a sudden they become top 30-40 players once they start playing with lebron

Nah Bosh is great and a better fit with Lebron than Love. Love is ineffective against teams like the Warriors whereas Bosh has much more value. People were arguing he was indisputably top 10, which I didn't agree with, but he was all star level. Player values get dicey when you change your role and go third banana but Bosh defense alone makes him >>>> Love.

I'm not saying Love isn't a good player but he is nowhere near all-star level against elite teams.

Most third wheels are always going to be taking a dive when it comes to stats in the NBA. Bosh took to a similar dive when he joined the big 3. Someone has to do the dirty work.

Nobody starts saying Klay's a bum when his production drops after KD joins, but for some reason people expect bosh and love to keep up their numbers when they go from first option to third option?? How many better third options in the entire league are there than love in Cleveland and bosh in Miami? Probably not more than one or two teams in the league had a better #3 option, but lebron slappies still complain they aren't good enough

Klay can make a bigger impact as third wheel because he's an insane defender, love isn't.

It is very odd.

The funniest narrative, though, is:

LeBron (top all-time SF; basically playing the point) + Wade (top 3 all-time SG) = Terrible Fit; Unlucky LeBron

Pippen (top 5 all-time SF; basically playing the point) + Jordan (top all-time SG) = GREAT FIT; Jordan sooo lucky to have such a great supporting cast!

Pippen is obviously a better fit with Jordan than Wade/LeBron. That's like casual-fan levels of basketball analysis. It wasn't a terrible fit or unlucky it just was what it was. Pippen is the perfect fit with Jordan.

Wade and bron both prefer to dominate the ball and both prefer to play in the paint. If either had a good long game or was better off the ball it would be a better fit. Pippen is better off ball than wade and of course is an elite defender while wade is a good one for his position not goAt level. It helps that Jordan has the long 2 game as well.

Lebron would be much better fit with Durant than with wade due to shooting ability and Durant is better off ball.

Lebron/wade isn't a bad pairing, there have been better-pippen Jordan, Kobe shaq, magic Kareem, Durant curry, and probably others that have been more synergistic.

I thought LeBron had a better 3-point shot than Jordan. I must've been mistaken.

Winning 6 title tends to makes things seem obvious.

his long game might be better than Jordan but it doesn't make it elite by any means.

Jordan's long 2 game helped make the Jordan/Pippen combo great.

LeBron's (better) long 3 game didn't help the LeBron/Wade combo.

Got it. These narratives are tricky sometimes.

If Lebrons had an elite 3 point game it would be a better alignment. I'm not sure how you are misconstruing things here.

Bron has an elite paint game, okay mid range and above average 3 point game--especially if you consider bron a PF. Jordan is great paint, elite mid range and probably average or below for a guard from 3 although 3 wasn't a strong ability in Jordan's era in general while it is now. You're stretching things.

Pippen's 3 point numbers aren't bad for the era and his bulk attempts was on the high side.

What if Jordan had an elite 3 point game? Do you think that would make for better alignment/fit?

People always act like Jordan/Pippen were perfect compliments to each other (mostly because they won 6 titles) -- while LeBron/Wade combo was just some clunky partnership.

Pippen was also a perfect fit for Madonna

Wade and Lebron due to how their team was formed joined up when Wade was 28 and Bron was 26. Clearly the MJ/Jordan combo formed at a much younger age (Pippen was 22 and Jordan 24, and Pippen obviously matured and probably modified his game better than Wade could have). Basically due to age and team structure, Heat were forced into the fire and to win now--Wade was getting paid ~max money; Pippen was making a rookie deal. But that's clearly the disadvantage of joining up and creating a "super-team."

It's not until year 4 do the Bulls go on their title run; so 4 years to get in gear and 4 years to mature.

Wade and Bron were both near the top of the league in most stats when they joined up. Year 1 Bron dipped a little bit (from 31 to 27 in PER) and Wade dipped a little bit (from 28 to 25) but it's totally expected. Lebron's last 3 years in Miami his PER went back to 29.3+ which is an insanely high level; Wade dropped from 26, to 24, to 22, and he missed a number of games in 2012 (33) and 2013 (28) so that didn't help keep his stats up. As you can see over time Wade didn't age that well and Lebron for the most part has been fine. Wade lead the league in Usage before Miami joined the Heat and still it dipped but still high usage even in his last year with Lebron (went from 36% at peak to 28% his last year; and jumped to 34% the year after) likewise Lebron stayed consistently at 30+ or higher during his stay (which is slightly lower than his average while he's been at Cleveland for both times)

Pippen is a little different, basically a steady stream of 20 PER his entire career with Jordan and slightly higher the 2 years Jordan missed. Jordan's first 6 years with Pippen, his stats are out of this world--31+ PER 4 straight years. Jordan's stats dip slightly during the regular season of the 2nd run after the first year while Scottie stays consistent. Jordan's usage has always been high and Pippen's has typically been in the low 20% except the retirement years.

Jordan's stats are very similar during the postseason and so are scottie's. Meanwhile Wade after a great year 1, has considerable dips in years 2-4 with Lebron in the playoffs--could be injuries, could be age but something clearly isn't working as well. I will argue Wade played better than Lebron in the first finals against the Mavs and the first playoffs; but clearly that was reversed in the other years and Wade was in fact terrible in the final series against the Spurs.

So here are my arguments against the Lebron/Wade combination

1) they are very similar players and their strengths are similar--they are high usage ball dominant players; their strengths are around the ball and when you take that from one of them their strengths become less strong-they also both love the paint and both don't have elite 8 point skills
2) due to their nature of construction they had to learn to be good quickly and were pretty good quick but they probably didn't have enough time to adjust their games; jordan and pippen had a few years to mature and while Jordan was crushing it; they eventually blew past the rest of the league, together
3) injuries/age definitely played a role in the fall of Wade and the Heat--in order for the Heat to win; Wade needs to play like a top 10 player

There are probably other reasons why Jordan/Pippen is a better duo than Wade/Lebron; Jordan/Pippen were the focal points of a team that won 6 titles. With that being said; after Wade/Lebron, I think you'll have a tough time arguing that the Heat 3-10 were better than the Bulls 3-10. But that's clearly due to team construction. The downfall of the Heat formula was clear. They had a few top end talented players but the rest of the team due to lack of draft picks, and paying 3 guys essentially max money you can't get a ton of quality vets.

They had a few good players (like Chalmers or Ray) but they are going to have trouble matching someone like the Bulls then or Warriors now, because both teams have had the benefits of someone either being great on a rookie deal (Pippen initially) or getting severely underpaid (Pippen was paid peanuts some how after his rookie deal and Curry didn't fully bloom yet and has been locked into a very fair deal for the Warriors).

So I think Wade/Lebron are fine in general but if you compare them to other great combos there are clearly issues. I guess you'll see these as excuses, and they are for the most part but they are reasons why I don't think Lebron can work with every other star player. Likewise, I'm not sure if a Wade/Jordan would have been nearly as strong as a Pippen/Jordan combo.

If you are comparing bulls 3 -10 to Heat 3-10, it really matters which bulls team and to a lesser extent which heat team.

96 Bulls 3 to 10 better than any Heat 3 to 10 but i would take any Heat 3 to 10 while lebron played over say Bulls 93.

Ah true, obviously I meant in general; but having Bosh as your best player on 3-10 probably isn't an awful thing especially if Grant is forced to be the focal point of an O.

The first run of titles by the Bulls, I wouldn't consider a real super team although they were awfully good. The second run obviously has the 2nd highest winning regular season team in it and was sick good.

After the big 3 for the Heat, I wouldn't consider the team to be very good talent wise and definitely not on the order of a "super-team." But again, that's due to how they constructed the team and how they paid their top 3 players.