My point is in game 7 without help MJ's team sucked and he lost. Against better teams with better players, he lost in a game 7 in a HUGE series-ZOMG I bet all the news at the time were MJ wasn't good enough. That's the point. You can't always win in series where you are outmatched. But herk derk, you think he should when every other player in NBA history especially the greats have lost series in fact have lost a ton of series.

LOL dude came like straight from batting practice into the last month of the season.

Ok Jordan literally never lost a series for 6 straight full seasons*

*full season denoted by a season in which he didn't play ****ing baseball for 75%+ of it

But he has the KILLER INSTINCT, IT shouldn't ****ing matter. See I can play the narrative too. It's ****ing stupidville the guys you make up. Jordan couldn't lose except when he did.

The point is when MJ had the right situation, he won titles. When he had by far the best team in the league he won titles and he was a big reason for that. Lebron hasn't been on the team that has been by far the best team in the league in maybe any season. He's had very good teams but not all time great teams. On the list of all time great squads, have the Heat or Cavs on any of them? I doubt it even with the win against the Warriors last year.

Yea if your one other good player, top 50 sidekick has 2 points you're probably up ****s creek. LeBron slappies should be creaming over that series that Jordan even took it 7. Because in LeBron world that's an incredible achievement

But after that, he ran of 6 in a row (or 6 in 7 if you count the baseball season). LeBron has never come close to doing that. And never will. And during that 6 of 7 run Jordan regularly won games on his own and was never afraid to take the last shot and wasn't watching Scottie Pippen iso him out and win games for him

Have I argued that Jordan is not the best scorer of all time; best scorer all time =/ best player all time; although Jordan likely is. Lebron hasn't been fortunate enough to be on a team good enough to do that. Lebron has played well enough that if he was on a team that was good enough he could have put up a run like that. Again you guys can't separate team performance and player performance. Most pundits can't as well. Now all of a sudden Durant is a killer and was a loser before this year; he's the same player but in a better spot. Lebron put himself in better spots as well but not the best spots to win titles although he had a ton of equity.

LeBron has been on a team with 2 perennial all-stars every single year since leaving Cleveland. You talk like he's playing with Delonte West and Vitaly Potapenko still.

I'm not saying Durant is a killer. Durant is still a huge ring chasing ***** and can't hold a candle to LeBron, but the thing is Durant did last nice, in LeBron's face, what people have been wanting LeBron to do forever. And he's never done it. It's a blatant and simple contradiction. It doesn't mean Durant > LeBron. It's not even close and never will be.

I don't think it would be close. Even without a 3 point line

If Lebron had stayed with Cleveland his whole career instead of ring chasing he'd get much more respect. Then to come back when the Cavs have Irving and a no 1 pick they can move for a guy averaging 26 and 13. Real big of Lebron

I didn't say Lebron's teams weren't good. I just don't think they were the best. I'd much rather have Jordan's team construction than what Lebron has had in his constructed teams especially during the second 3 peat. Those teams were amazing and won a ton of games in the regular season and the postseason. I'm not going to argue that Lebron needs much more to win titles but to beat teams like Warriors and Spurs you're going to need better team construction especially if you want it to happen consistently.

I understand that Lebron has been instrumental at building his teams. I'm not going to say Lebron is a better GM than whoever was running the Bulls.

Again you want Lebron to be the best shooter/scorer from the wing; he clearly isn't. There is a reason why most clutch players are wing shooters; it's much easier to collapse the paint. Why isn't Shaq's clutchness questioned? Or any other post player.

Because Shaq or any other post player aren't in the GOAT discussion.

Lebron can drop like 40 points whenever he wants. So it's unreasonable to expect him to score in the clutch?

And I'm not saying LeBron is miles better than any team in the league, but the GOAT should be the difference when the teams are equal or close to it (which has been the case in every season but this one). And again he lost to a team much much worse than him which Jordan never did.

He lost to 1 team that was "much much" worse in the Mavs and really they aren't that bad but he's beaten 2 teams consider "MUCH MUCH" better. Jordan never beat a team that was much, much better in a series.

I'm not sure how many series Lebron has won, but if he's only lost 1 series where he was favorite in; it's isn't that much of an indictment.

is this supposed to be a point in favor of lebron? because he definitely played with some of the all time players, including top 5 SG of all time and the best shooter of all time. so the fact that he was never on all time great team should not be used as a defense.

he played with some; he played with Wade on the wrong side of his career (he was great in first 2 years) and he played with 36 old Ray Allen. Should I count 35 year old Shaq too?

I'm not saying Lebron is playing with trash; he isn't playing with the equivalent of what the Bulls had during their second 3 peat or the current Warriors squad.

Do you think the Heat and the Cavs are an ideal team construction?

I think they both had good team construction but could have been better.

Name a worse team to win an NBA Finals this millennium. They were that bad relative to NBA Champs.

IDK what you want me to do tell you about Jordan not being a team that was much much better because he was the GOAT and was the best every single year without super teaming.

Last years title was very impressive for the Cavs obv. Kyrie was the one who took over when it came to a climax though, not LeBron. Doesn't mean LeBron is terrible, but it's exactly the point that LeBron couldn't finish a game off whereas Jordan was the alpha on his team and always the main guy winning **** for b2b 3 peats

What more do you want for LeBron to get him on part with the 2nd 3-peat construction. And remember he 3-peated even before that team. After Scottie that roster is putrid.

What player on that team does LeBron need to add to his current starting 5 to make you stop saying Jordan played with much better players?

Lebron scored the final point of the series last year and 10 points in the 4Q (27 for the game) last year. Kyrie had 5 in the 4Q but the biggest shot. Again the narrative is hilarious.

Why? The point is LeBron has never taken the biggest shot. I want the GOAT to be taking the biggest shot. Again, not a good player or the best player in the league, the literal best player of all time. LeBron has never done that. And when he's tried he's failed miserably and sometimes bailed out.

And congratulations. You've just pointed out that LeBron's big clutch Finals' moment is icing a game with 2 FTs after Kyrie won it for him. GOAT

If you grew up watching MJ every single time he was on TV like a lot of the olds in here, you know without a doubt that there's no possible way you could sweep him in the finals. No way, no how, I don't care what you'd have done.

You could have traded Shaq to that Suns team Barkley played on.

You could have traded David Robinson to the Jazz and put him with Malone and Stockton.

And not only would the Bulls not have been swept, but they would have still been live to win those series. That has to count for something imho. You were never going to beat Michael 4 times in a row in a finals, ever. So if that happens to Bron, you cannot call him the GOAT. the GOAT is literally superman, and I've only ever seen one of those so far in my life. A literally unstoppable player in the clutch.

He has taken the biggest shots, you just choose to ignore them. That's what you want. Who gives a **** what you want? Why are you the GOAT police? You guys are about as smart or logical as Skip Bayless. HERK DERK LAST SECOND SHOTS.

You're telling me the best player all time MUST TAKE last second shots? Why is that the only thing that matters? GOAT Player must not make GOAT decisions, just force that **** in the hoop when that isn't the type of player he is.

Jordan play like 16 games and boom playoffs after 1 year and half break playing baseball.
He did not played great but he played good an after enough pratcie what happened next season ?

Jordan was back !

I mean not recognizing that simply means you never played any sport of at least national level for sure if you think, taking more then a year off and have 3 weeks to prepare and face the best and play at you highest level is possible

It's not the ONLY thing that matters. Jordan isn't the GOAT only because he takes last second shots.

He was a stone cold killer on offense, as you said the greatest scorer of all time. He was an elite defender. He won an NBA title in 6 straight seasons as a full time player, and took a year off to play ****ing baseball in between. He had a killer instinct, lol WIM, or whatever the **** you want to call it. He was the greatest basketball player of all time AND he was ruthless when the game is on the line and time after time he won games when they were hanging in the balance.

If last second shots were the only thing that mattered than Robert Horry > Lebron ainec but we're obv not saying that. You love skewing an argument.

What are the biggest shots he's taken and made?

The point is you guys like to skew facts. I'm not saying what Jordan did wasn't great; I'm saying the whole narrative is Jordan can't lose especially in his prime but he did. When Jordan had the best teams, he won. When he didn't, he lost. Lebron is pretty much in the same bucket. The issue is Lebron's "failures "have been in the Finals while Jordan's have been before he got a team so they were just in the playoffs or the year after he returned from the Sport. You guys will instantly go to he lost to title teams; guess what, that's who Lebron lost to as well. Since the 2008 playoffs, Lebron has lost to the title winner in all but 2 years (Orlando who got smoked and Boston who lost to the Lakers in 7).

again you just thinking about series and ring when we speak about some critical situation like the 3rd game.

No one ( i believe ) hold the first 2 lost on lebron, nothing much better he could tho but in that last game get real... 2 min/ 0-11.

I mean simply put it, durant in the 4th quarter played much more like jordan than what lebron did.

And this is goating !

he did not lose winning game even tho he lost series, you get that ?

i mean it is simple, lebron lover think jordan would lose that 3rd game....
what else can we do.

Well yea when you are the GOAT you are going to inherently have the best team in the league. The true GOAT will always be favored. Jordan never lost to a team much worse than him in the finals and never played a team much better than him, because he is the literal greatest basketball player of all time.


What shots are you referring to when you repeatedly say this?

+1

point is, if you feel your team cant do it, well hey if your the GOAT, you do it yourself ffs

i mean for example, it is great to pass the winning shot and great play if the basket is easy but passing for a 3pts shot and hoping your guy hit to save your a$$?
Not the same thing at all...even if it was the "right "play in that instant.
instead you take a little more time because you are the freakn goat and find a better spot!
Because u know what, you are the goat, you are the best player of the world, you create better spot.