How do you know this, out of curiosity? I picture some scenario where you have stuff in the car and you talk your way past him/her. But how did you know that he had probable cause and you really talked your way out of some search? You're allowed to politely talk to them in general, nobody is saying you don't speak. You simply don't speak about details beyond something like "heading to the movies, have a good night officer".

But if a cop comes to your door and asks if he can come in to ask you a few questions about where you were last Monday at 7pm, you should seriously say nothing and not think you can get over him. It's a mistake, and already 1 good lawyer in here has explained why.

Lol probable cause. I've had my car searched illegally twice and have been in a friend's car that was searched illegally a few times. If you think the law and justice system is your ally in these situations you are in for a rude awakening if something ever happens to you.

Cops will search a car full of suspect teenagers every time. And now that I'm old I hope they continue doing it to current and future teenagers.

At this point there is not an instance even imaginable where a cop could knock on my door and ask where I've been.

I always laugh at people who think the law will protect them from the police. I KNOW MY RIGHTS YOU CAN DO THAT.

Breaking news: the po-lice can do whatever the **** they want up to and including murder you in cold blood if you're black. It's not worth taking a stand over some 99.9999% trivial questions. Nor is it worth paying a lawyer a few thousand dollars because you saw a YouTube video once saying don't talk to police.

ITT a former drug abuser, who could have been sent to jail for significant periods of time at virtually any moment of what appears to have been at least a year of his youth, advocates in favor of talking to the police because later in his life he views his activities to be impenetrable to the authorities and because that **** might have been expensive if it all went wrong.

It's another all-time horrible take from the mercurial TUT.

I never said that talking to the police is for everyone and every situation. I'm simply saying "never talk to the police because there is absolute 0 upside" is total bull****. There are many instances where people shouldn't say anything.

The quoted part of that paragraph is something Rafiki said earlier and it's wrong. There can be plenty of upside talking to them.

ITT a lawyer advocates shutting up, forcing them to arrest you, and paying a lawyer a few thousand dollars to tell you to tell them "I was at work Monday night"

Talking to the police is too beta for Hoaya. The correct play is to kill the cop who pulls you over and then hire a team of lawyers to draw up an elaborate defense.

Anyway, there are abundant reasons not to talk to the police. No one is talking about routine traffic stops when they say this, unless they are idiots.

One reason that you do not talk to cops in life is that there is nothing to be accomplished - the cop has probable cause or reasonable suspicion, or he does not, and you babbling cannot impact that for the positive. Tut is wrong here.

Another reason that you do not talk to cops in life is that you are a proverbial idiot with regard to criminal jurisprudence, no matter how smart you are. You have no idea (i) what defenses you are precluding, (ii) what evidence you are providing, (iii) what features of your story you are mis-remembering, (iv) what embellishments you've accidentally made, (v) what you've said to corroborate an incorrect police theory, (vi) what the police are hoping you'll say, (vii) whether the officer is working in good faith or not, (viii) what you'll forget you ever said, (ix) what amounts to a partial admission even if it's true and you didn't do anything, and/or (x) whether you actually did anything.

In short, just shut up.

Here's a handy map:

Traffic Stops

You should talk to the cops for the purpose of giving them your license and registration if they ask. If you have any suspicion that you're being stopped for a reason that does not involve a traffic violation, don't say anything.

Other Stops

Shut. Up.

This is my advice.

EDIT: One routine idiot issue is that you said something to the cop that isn't actually true even though you thought it was or your embellishment was just for rhetorical force about your own innocence. It wasn't true, though, and your credibility suffers later.

I mean I'll defer to law experts Hoya et al here, but the whole police culture in the US seems so strange. Like it wouldn't cross my mind at all to not talk to the police if I got pulled over for any reason. Guess I should be praising my lucky stars for not getting pulled over when I went on a roadtrip to Ann Arbor the first time I was in the US

Can someone explain whats going on in oregon to me

dxracer chairs goat

probably the best thing ive bought in the past three years

Not really, and I tried to get it.

It appears that two dudes who had previously been convicted of arson for the obviously intentional burning of government land were released after short prison terms, and then sent back to jail on an appeal regarding the Constitutionality of their punishments. Legally, the appeal leading to longer sentences (4 more years each) seems pretty bull**** and against at least the spirit of their agreement with the prosecution, but the idea is that the trial court found their threatened prison terms too long and cruel and unusual, the prosecution appealed and won. Thus, these two - the Hammonds - are going back to jail.

Anyway, THOSE TWO aren't actually part of the actual armed militia takeover thing. In fact, the Hammonds denied their own involvement and were turning themselves in as it happened.

The morons in the takeover thing have used this opportunity to STRAP UP and take over some land. They have some vaguely articulated gripe about BIG GOVERNMENT taking public land from ranchers, etc., over U.S. history. I believe they want to return lots of BLM land to private citizens, with the word "return" being a semantic ploy in this sentence. It's more like "provide the federal land to private citizens because BIG GOVERNMENT took that land from other people at other times." They cast this in the veneer of a dispute about Constitutionality. It's not possible to analyze fairly because it fundamentally is actually stupid people saying stupid things, it isn't even worthy of further investigation.

They say they are committed to responding to force with force. So like, good for them. They have guns they'll shoot. This is in some ways not exactly news.

Anyway, the uproar about the RESPONSE to this is the dumbest part of all. As has become common in the liberal experience, which is what I identify as, lots of "my side" - people whom I denounce as imbeciles and who cause me to question the terms by which I identify my basic thinking about human rights and behavior - have reacted that if these dudes were brown dudes of any heritage, they'd already be dead. Thus these white dudes are NOT DEAD because of continuing racism.

This is, of course, wrong, not only because the U.S. government does have a history of shooting white militia idiots in the past, but because these clowns have "taken over" just about the most irrelevant federal land in the country. There's really no reason to risk death since there's nothing at risk anyway.

Unfortunately, there's a bloodthirst about this in which people are saying the militia guys SHOULD be killed, I suppose on the justification that (1) we can and (2) we would've if they weren't white so we HAVE TO in order to not be racists. So I mean, give that the respect it deserves, too.

Also, there's the debate about whether these guys are terrorists. Depends on definitions and isn't interesting, imo.

Cliffs: it's the stupidest thing ever

Didn't realize this group in Oregon was the same family (Bundy) as that Nevada thing in 2014. This should be good.

Btw full marks to the FBI for basically leaving them alone and not giving them the battle they wanted. That's pretty classic. Just wait'm out.

I just said what everyone was thinking.

Hoya,

I guess I'll get into my situation.

When I was 18 I totaled my car into the woods. I was so drunk that I do not even remember getting into the car and certainly would not have done so if I had any control. A lot more went into it that I don't feel like discussing.

Anyway, one minute I'm at a party the next minute I'm being woken up by a flashlight. I'm still inside the car and it's a police officer by himself asking if I'm alive. Somehow I didn't have a scratch on me (wasn't wearing a seatbelt btw. Good thing I didn't get whiplash).

After starting to come to and realizing how ****ed I was I planned on saying nothing and refusing to blow etc etc to try to minimize the damage. This cop seemed a little shaken up though. Maybe young and not too experienced idk. Maybe he didn't feel like doing paperwork that night and it was just pure luck. He says "you've been drinking?" I don't answer. He repeats "have you been drinking? Don't give me any bull****. We can do a blood test and we know what the outcome is gonna be. Do you want to go to jail?"

At this point, I figured there actually isn't even any downside to talking. It's a total freeroll. Even if hours go by somehow I'm still gonna be drunk.

So I answered in my most innocent white boy voice "no I don't want to go to jail. I'm 18 years old and I don't know how this happened. I never would drive like this."

He followed up with something like "I saw the car and thought I'd be pulling out a dead body".

We went back and forth with some normal conversation and I promised him it'd never happen again. He said if I ever get caught drunk driving again I'd wish he just arrested me now. Then he had me write up a police report that I saw a deer and swerved into the tree. He called a tow truck and left.

Obviously there's no super sales skills or jedi mind tricks in those answers. But I was enormously lucky enough that he gave me an out and I correctly took it where if I said nothing there is no doubt in my mind that my life is negatively altered a great deal.


Another situation I was driving with a decent amount of pills on me. I was pulled over by detectives in an unmarked car. They said I was swerving. I hadn't been drinking at all but was very tired so it's possible I was. They didn't even have badges displayed so I was a little suspicious. They ask me to get out of the car and ask me where I'm going where I'm coming from etc. I answer every question calmly and truthfully. I was coming home from work and tired from the long commute. As I'm talking to one, the other one starts searching my car (they'd never find the pills without a really thorough search. Nothing was just lying out. I say to the one I'm talking to "what's he doing?" He said "you understand the swerving makes us a little suspicious that you might be under the influence and have drugs in the car". I say yeah I definitely understand officer but truthfully I've just had a really long day and I'm exhausted. I probably should have stopped and gotten some coffee and I appreciate the work you guys are doing out here. Is there a way we can speed this up I can take a breathalyzer or blood test or whatever you need" (I would have failed the blood test miserably for Xanax I think). He says "that won't be necessary but be careful getting home" and he sent me on my way. I called the police when I got home with the license plate number to make sure they were actually cops.

These are brags. I was ****ting my pants both times and obviously got lucky, and what I did might not even be optimal or advisable. But it is absolutely positively clearly wrong to say there is no upside in talking to the police in these types of situations. It's a gamble and it can payoff.

In both instances silence or asking for a lawyer would have made things worse.

I would say that you were approximately 99% to go to jail in both instances and 100% to be convicted due to what you said to them and that both situations are such absurd exceptions to normal cop behavior that I can only chalk it up to literal luck. It appears that nothing you could have done would have resulted in an arrest in the first instance, by the way, which is incredible and reckless nonsense by that cop.

In the first instance you gave them an actual admission of guilt. In the second instance you dared them to find you with significant quantities of pills and consented to a search of your car that contained drugs while simultaneously lying to them (you were on Xanax, and you possessed drugs). That is, if a prosecutor ever gets her hands on it, a 100% conviction.

Everything you said hurt you. Dumb luck saved you. That's awesome for you, but it makes for terrible, terrible advice.

I'm not reading that all but based on your first few sentences I can tell you are basing every single police officer on the one experience you had.

Lol TuT

You did too many drugs bro

Is convenient for lawyers to suggest a stfu policy as any time you play a mute with a cop youll need to spend a ton on a lawyer after

Then youre paying hoya 250/hr to wordbomb 2p2

Ok I read the second story about getting pulled over.

LOL TUT

Judge: You ranchers torched federal land in a burn ban, knowing volunteer firefighters would be at risk. It's jaileo for you, but given your adorable wool-lined jackets and hats, the "mandatory minimum" of 5 years for this violation of some law with the word terrorism in it would be cruel and unusual, so I'll call it 3 months.

Prosecutor: Uh, you can't undercut a mandatory minimum. Cats would marry dogs. Black people would want the same or equal treatment!

Apellate judge: Yeah, you can't do that. They do have to serve the penalty for breaking the terror law.

Militia guys: They called the cuddly ranchers terrorists! Let's make an armed stand!

to digs:

that's just a really, really bad take but whatever

It would have been a 100% slam dunk conviction in both cases even if I refused to say anything. That's my point. And not talking would have ensured an arrest in case 1 and a further search in case 2. Regardless of what the law says, nothing is more suspicious to a cop than "having something to hide." And that's literally all they think when you start evoking your "rights". Cops are incredibly stupid on average.

The only upside is to try to prevent the arrest even if there's only a 1% chance of doing so (it's higher than 1% btw but maybe not much).

Exactly this

actually Tut, in the second instance you could've said "I'm just tired after a long day at work" and left out the entire "also I preemptively consent to your legal search of my car that contains illegal drugs, and I preemptively consent to a blood test that I will fail" gambit and apparently been just fine

I'm not even a criminal attorney and I hate attorneys and the legal industry, this advice has nothing to do with churning fees, jesus

you realize that public defenders preach STFU and that they have NO economic incentive to do so, right? we say this because if you don't STFU you WILL say stupid things that harm you, like Tut did.