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Old 04-03-2013, 02:36 AM   #57701
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

there is an obviously strong correlation between "parents who make their kids read" and "parents who aren't negligent ****s," and the opposite is true as well

video games are currently the big target of society going down the drain, but if a kid is playing minecraft or portal or something that indirectly is teaching him spatial relationships, isn't that useful? there is indeed evidence that hands-on active "making" is superior to all other forms of passive learning

obviously few (if any) people here are against video games for kids; i'm just saying that it's always something from generation to generation - it was the radio, then the TV, then video games that are ruining kids and back in my day we read narnia and blah blah

basically i think most of the arguments along those lines (including the ones that are well-intentioned - like reading lots of books) are rooted in some form of survivorship bias rather than actual objective analysis
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:41 AM   #57702
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

for example i have a healthy disregard for "classic literature" and always have; i think books like where the red fern grows and the scarlet letter and moby dick and a wrinkle in time and whatever else are just not good at all.

to me, a lot of "classic" literature is being verbose and symbolic for the sake of dick measuring, and that never resonated with me as a kid. yeah yeah aldous huxley, we get it, communism sucks donkey dick. just come out and say it ffs instead of wrapping it in allegories

now to many others, that's heresy and they can learn from that. so fine. but i was wired differently even though those books were shoved down my throat; i vastly preferred reading books written in the same fashion as "calculus for the common man" (not that i ever read this book until much later in life, but the way feynman describes that kind of learning is how i learned best and still do)

i dunno it's fairly interesting; as a person who coaches a moderately large group of clients with a wide range of skills and learning abilities, you gain an appreciation for how people learn and acquire new skills and tailor your teachings in said manner. i think it's all pretty cool

Last edited by anononon; 04-03-2013 at 02:56 AM. Reason: i actually enjoyed brave new world
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:44 AM   #57703
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

Wrinkle in Time was obviously written during a huge bender consuming copious amounts of illegal substances
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:46 AM   #57704
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

I know kyle is being facetious to make a point, but it's important to point out, I think, that coming out and saying "communism sucks donkey dick" or whatever, isn't interesting at all.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:47 AM   #57705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
yeah yeah aldous huxley, we get it, communism sucks donkey dick.

i dunno it's fairly interesting; as a person who coaches a moderately large group of clients with a wide range of skills and learning abilities, you gain an appreciation for how people learn and acquire new skills and tailor your teachings in said manner. i think it's all pretty cool
Lol'd irl at the first part I quoted.

Regarding the second part, I'm in the same profession (generally speaking), and I completely agree. It's pretty fascinating.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:53 AM   #57706
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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Originally Posted by Fedfan691 View Post
all this book talk made me realize that it was the Classic Book Series of the 90's that made me into the poster I am today.

brb, gotta MORPH

I prefer these guys:



Oh, and these guys:



These guys were cool too:

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Old 04-03-2013, 02:54 AM   #57707
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Depending on how got show handles the coming seasons it could very easily be the poster child for a screen adaptation being better than books.

Scarlet letter is also mega good. Invisible man is probably the best thing I was ever forced to read in a class though.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:58 AM   #57708
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

to the first two but i was an encyclopedia brown guy as far as child detectives go
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:00 AM   #57709
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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Originally Posted by PlzBeALevel View Post
I know kyle is being facetious to make a point, but it's important to point out, I think, that coming out and saying "communism sucks donkey dick" or whatever, isn't interesting at all.
of course not, but i never grasped the concept of a long, drawn-out story to discuss why a strict caste system is bad or various other lessons

for me, it would resonate way more to say (a true story, BTW): here is a teenager who fled a DPRK labor camp. when asked what he did for fun, he asked if the question could be repeated multiple times then eventually said he did not understand the question. eventually it was made clear that he had no idea what the word "fun" meant

in two sentences i can immediately understand why the DPRK is messed up. why do i gotta read 300 pages of stuff about a girl pumping her vag full of spermicide and taking ambien
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:03 AM   #57710
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
to me, a lot of "classic" literature is being verbose and symbolic for the sake of dick measuring, and that never resonated with me as a kid. yeah yeah aldous huxley, we get it, communism sucks donkey dick. just come out and say it ffs instead of wrapping it in allegories
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Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
of course not, but i never grasped the concept of a long, drawn-out story to discuss why a strict caste system is bad or various other lessons

for me, it would resonate way more to say (a true story, BTW): here is a teenager who fled a DPRK labor camp. when asked what he did for fun, he asked if the question could be repeated multiple times then eventually said he did not understand the question. eventually it was made clear that he had no idea what the word "fun" meant

in two sentences i can immediately understand why the DPRK is messed up. why do i gotta read 300 pages of stuff about a girl pumping her vag full of spermicide and taking ambien
animal farm is a great book tho
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:07 AM   #57711
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

Some communism allegories are more equal than others
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:08 AM   #57712
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

to be clear, i did enjoy animal farm, brave new world, and many many other books with moral agendas. i love to read (though mostly non-fiction in my old age) but i don't immediately denounce those who don't enjoy reading. some very intelligent people really do perceive it to be a chore. i can't say i understand that viewpoint, but i have seen it enough with smart people (mostly in the IT industry) that i no longer associate "a non-reader" with "likely to be an idiot"
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:08 AM   #57713
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

Kyle: because literature isn't really about the point you're making, but how you're able to use language and creating meaning with it.

I think you either cultivate an appreciation for that or you don't, for whatever reason.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:12 AM   #57714
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

i think that is a good point PBAL. i guess my ire for forced reading is directed at the childhood education system that leverages literature in such a way.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:13 AM   #57715
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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was kant the guy who hypothesized that you should never, ever lie? i had that guy as a huge clown.
kant doesn't like treating human beings as currency
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:14 AM   #57716
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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to be clear, i did enjoy animal farm, brave new world, and many many other books with moral agendas. i love to read (though mostly non-fiction in my old age) but i don't immediately denounce those who don't enjoy reading. some very intelligent people really do perceive it to be a chore. i can't say i understand that viewpoint, but i have seen it enough with smart people (mostly in the IT industry) that i no longer associate "a non-reader" with "likely to be an idiot"
I completely agree with this obviously.

It seems pretty likely that I'll be an English professor in half a dozen years or so. That might make me seem pretty smart in conversation and other overrated ways people have of judging intelligence irl, but I don't rank it over any other ways that people learn or other disciplines that people prefer.

I don't know you apart from reading your baseball posts, and I've talked to Dean a ton and I'd say I'm a likely dog to be as intelligent as either of you. I don't think there's any kind of actual snobbery being espoused itt by the pro-book people. (seriously anyway)
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:18 AM   #57717
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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animal farm is a great book tho
I kinda feel like Kyle does with Huxley when it comes to Orwell.

1984 and Animal Farm, imo, just kinda beat the reader over the head with non-stop pretty unsubtle anti-soviet imagery. Neither book excites me a ton although I appreciate parts of them for sure.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:20 AM   #57718
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

i posted about this on my facebook not long ago but since i quit my IT job making a lot of money and now work in the baseball industry where most of my co-workers and clients are of average intelligence at best (aside from the people i deal with for [team redacted]), i have never been happier despite making 30% of my IT salary

the people that bother me the most are the ones who may have something like +1 sigma intelligence factor but think they are +3 sigma and also believe that it means something in life

i am easily the dumbest person in the group that i work with for the aforementioned organization. it is like laughably true. but no one looks down on me, because the only thing they care about is effort and genuine insight. and that can come from all walks of life.

i dunno how we got on this zen thing but it does connect to sports (at least it does for me) in some fashion
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:22 AM   #57719
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

Portland Graffiti Update



*sigh*
I’m not sure when the waterheads completely took over responsibilities for most graffiti in my neighborhood, but it’s happened. No effort, creativity, or dash. These are not plucky taggers.

It is worth noting a couple things however. This is a rock in a haphazard rock garden (another doltish decoration for another time) on private property bordering the sidewalk. I highly doubt the owner wrote “smoke weed” on the rock himself; if you look closely some other writing below has either been scrubbed off or worn away. I can only hope this is a consistent, pathetic battle between two parties: one the mouthbreathing dirtbag with a Sharpie and delusional senses of creativity and rebellion, the other the schlub mope who, about once a month, notices a fresh message on this rock about the time his screen door stops bouncing on his way out. It’s no Billy Madison vs. Old Man Clemens, but it’s all we have here.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:29 AM   #57720
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
there is an obviously strong correlation between "parents who make their kids read" and "parents who aren't negligent ****s," and the opposite is true as well
I wasn't really talking about making kids read, more about the desire of the children to do so. With some children it's a formality that they must do, and with others it is a joy and an activity that they voluntarily do. Many people with siblings (and also I imagine children, but I can't speak firsthand there) know what I'm talking about. The same parental encouragement can have extremely different results. The pattern of smart person->read a buttload when he/she was a child is very strong in my experience. I don't know if it's something about written text or not. And the causality is not easy to determine. Maybe in the future it will be holograms or something.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:30 AM   #57721
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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Originally Posted by kyleb View Post
to me, a lot of "classic" literature is being verbose and symbolic for the sake of dick measuring
As you already alluded to, the way literature is taught in schools exaggerates the importance of symbolism. Even writers of "classics" agree.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:32 AM   #57722
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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This troll is .

Although it's weird coincidence because earlier today I read DFW's commencement speech to Kenyon (wherever the f that is) again after I had quoted part of it to someone. It's truly among the five or so best things I've ever read.
weird, I just sent DFW's speech to my mom 2 days ago. She's sharing it with her class

his speech is my favorite, I read it like once a year
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:36 AM   #57723
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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Nope not trolling



Pretty good hipster porn imo
Looks like a fun game. Not sure why they're playing in such rain though. Should be playing indoors.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:41 AM   #57724
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Christ Baiting

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i don't mean that i need to envision the characters having the same hair color as they do in the author's head, just that i feel a decent bit goes over my head due to being unable to relate to some aspects or not thoroughly processing every word due to ADD.

i don't know, after all of this i'll probably try to go ahead and read a novel to see if i like it or not. it's been forever since i tried, but i'll have to be sure to pick a really good one because i know i'm not finishing any one that's less than stellar.

infinite jest is IN THE MIX as a candidate.
don't take this the wrong way, since I like you. but if you haven't read a book in a long time, there is zero chance you will be able to read like 50 pages of IJ, much less finish it. it's not for the faint of heart.

i recommed something... a bit easier
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:44 AM   #57725
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Reading is Fundamental

My favorite short story ever:

Quote:
The Laugher

by Heinrich Böll (1966), translated by Leila Vennewitz

WHEN SOMEONE ASKS me what business I am in, I am seized with embarrassment: I blush and stammer, I who am otherwise known as a man of poise. I envy people who can say: I am a bricklayer. I envy barbers, bookkeepers and writers the simplicity of their avowal, for all these professions speak for themselves and need no lengthy explanation, while I am constrained to reply to such questions: I am a laugher. An admission of this kind demands another, since I have to answer the second question: “Is that how you make your living?” truthfully with “Yes.” I actually do make a living at my laughing, and a good one too, for my laughing is—commercially speaking—much in demand. I am a good laugher, experienced, no one else laughs as well as I do, no one else has such command of the fine points of my art. For a long time, in order to avoid tiresome explanations, I called myself an actor, but my talents in the field of mime and elocution are so meager that I felt this designation to be too far from the truth: I love the truth, and the truth is: I am a laugher. I am neither a clown nor a comedian. I do not make people gay, I portray gaiety: I laugh like a Roman emperor, or like a sensitive schoolboy, I am as much at home in the laughter of the seventeenth century as in that of the nineteenth, and when occasion demands I laugh my way through all the centuries, all classes of society, all categories of age: it is simply a skill which I have acquired, like the skill of being able to repair shoes. In my breast I harbor the laughter of America, the laughter of Africa, white, red, yellow laughter—and for the right fee I let it peal out in accordance with the director’s requirements.
I have become indispensable; I laugh on records, I laugh on tape, and television directors treat me with respect. I laugh mournfully, moderately, hysterically; I laugh like a streetcar conductor or like a helper in the grocery business; laughter in the morning, laughter in the evening, nocturnal laughter and the laughter of twilight. In short: wherever and however laughter is required—I do it.
It need hardly be pointed out that a profession of this kind is tiring, especially as I have also—this is my specialty—mastered the art of infectious laughter; this has also made me indispensable to third- and fourth-rate comedians, who are scared—and with good reason—that their audiences will miss their punch lines, so I spend most evenings in night clubs as a kind of discreet claque, my job being to laugh infectiously during the weaker parts of the program. It has to be carefully timed: my hearty, boisterous laughter must not come too soon, but neither must it come too late, it must come just at the right spot: at the pre-arranged moment I burst out laughing, the whole audience roars with me, and the joke is saved.
But as for me, I drag myself exhausted to the checkroom, put on my overcoat, happy that I can go off duty at last. At home I usually find telegrams waiting for me: “Urgently require your laughter. Recording Tuesday,” and a few hours later I am sitting in an overheated express train bemoaning my fate.
I need scarcely say that when I am off duty or on vacation I have little inclination to laugh: the cowhand is glad when he can forget the cow, the bricklayer when he can forget the mortar, and carpenters usually have doors at home which don’t work or drawers which are hard to open. Confectioners like sour pickles, butchers like marzipan, and the baker prefers sausage to bread; bullfighters raise pigeons for a hobby, boxers turn pale when their children have nose-bleeds: I find all this quite natural, for I never laugh off duty. I am a very solemn person, and people consider me—perhaps rightly so—a pessimist.
During the first years of our married life, my wife would often say to me: “Do laugh!” but since then she has come to realize that I cannot grant her this wish. I am happy when I am free to relax my tense face muscles, my frayed spirit, in profound solemnity. Indeed, even other people’s laughter gets on my nerves, since it reminds me too much of my profession. So our marriage is a quiet, peaceful one, because my wife has also forgotten how to laugh: now and again I catch her smiling, and I smile too. We converse in low tones, for I detest the noise of the night clubs, the noise that sometimes fills the recording studios. People who do not know me think I am taciturn. Perhaps I am, because I have to open my mouth so often to laugh.
I go through life with an impassive expression, from time to time permitting myself a gentle smile, and I often wonder whether I have ever laughed. I think not. My brothers and sisters have always known me for a serious boy.
So I laugh in many different ways, but my own laughter I have never heard.
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