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Old 03-08-2013, 12:53 PM   #54451
TheDean1
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

I'm just going to start posting after Krayz in every thread

Last edited by TheDean1; 03-08-2013 at 12:55 PM. Reason: at least my location isn't Team KruZe
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:54 PM   #54452
Krayz
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There's been a couple of times I wanted to ask you a dumb question about your posts to confuse people but I haven't found a hilarious opportunity yet.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:59 PM   #54453
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krayz View Post
And laziness has no similar symptoms to real ADHD. I don't know why that is being discussed except as a ******ed parent/psychiatrist thing.
FWIW I know what he means by it. I was on ritalin through 5th grade, since then I have had an extremely easy time focusing when I want to. I only run into trouble when I am asked to do work that I don't want to do.

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You scored a total of 35

Inattention Subscale: 16
Hyperactivity/Impulsivity Subscale: 19
Didn't know I was ADHD. Hyperactivity explains a LOT about me.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:01 PM   #54454
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

Xebeche/NoThumb/NT!/Mr. Clean/ham on rye was the worst ****ing mod in the history of anything.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:05 PM   #54455
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

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People being misdiagnosed with ADHD repeatedly is a different thing that it not existing. It exists. I have it. It tends to follow other neurological disorders that cause it. Usually most people with 'just' ADHD are misdiagnosed in my anecdotal experience. Or they have other issues that haven't been diagnosed.
If this is true it doesn't appear to be the psychiatric consensus based on current practice. I understand that practice is affected by many incentives, and that it often lags the cutting edge of theory, but: on what basis are you claiming that you know these people are misdiagnosed and the doctors don't?

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And laziness has no similar symptoms to real ADHD. I don't know why that is being discussed except as a ******ed parent/psychiatrist thing.
Uh, what? Procrastination, finding distractions from unpleasant work, avoidance of arduous/involved tasks.

Here are some symptoms from the DSM-IV that can easily be interpreted as laziness:
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work or other activities
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)

DSM for ADHD
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:19 PM   #54456
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That's not laziness Das Boot. You're looking at it through a lens of not wanting to do it. ADHD is not being able to do it.

And asking me how I know they are misdiagnosed seems silly since that's what everyone ITT has already said about the condition as a whole. It's a mostly uninformed opinion.

Last edited by Krayz; 03-08-2013 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:23 PM   #54457
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

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Originally Posted by A-Rod's Cousin View Post
Xebeche/NoThumb/NT!/Mr. Clean/ham on rye was the worst ****ing mod in the history of anything.
Dibs tho
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:24 PM   #54458
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

Right but his point is that laziness is often misconstrued as ADHD, not that ADHD is a myth.

Thinking over the history of my life, the vast majority of my inattentiveness was due to laziness. There have been many occasions where I felt pressured to step up my performance in areas where I was slacking, and I had little issue focusing then.

I'm still a hyperactive **** though. And at least kind of inattentive.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:25 PM   #54459
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

lol DSM

The APA is the biggest bunch of frauds since the steelers
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:26 PM   #54460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDean1 View Post
Right but his point is that laziness is often misconstrued as ADHD, not that ADHD is a myth.

Thinking over the history of my life, the vast majority of my inattentiveness was due to laziness. There have been many occasions where I felt pressured to step up my performance in areas where I was slacking, and I had little issue focusing then.

I'm still a hyperactive **** though. And at least kind of inattentive.
I think you're talking to me here, but that's exactly what I'm saying? His point is my point I guess, Idk why he's challenging me about it.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:27 PM   #54461
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

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lol DSM

The APA is the biggest bunch of frauds since the steelers
While I have no respect for massive sections of psychology as a field, this is ******ed.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:29 PM   #54462
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

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I think you're talking to me here, but that's exactly what I'm saying? His point is my point I guess, Idk why he's challenging me about it.
OK. I'm having a hard time focusing on this argument tbh
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:31 PM   #54463
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Jesus Mr. Clean was the worst ever.
Yes, but he is/was pretty elite at getting the haters/4l'ers FURIOUS
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:32 PM   #54464
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

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Originally Posted by ikestoys View Post
While I have no respect for massive sections of psychology as a field, this is ******ed.
Agreed. They're actually the biggest frauds since the Lakers.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:36 PM   #54465
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I guess I didn't make my point well enough - ADHD is claimed by many people more than it is diagnosed. This is the source of most of the misinformation regarding its prevalence in today's world. It's more diagnosed at any time in history - this is common with any other neurological or behavioral disorder. It's diagnosed more than it should be but it isn't nearly as bad as people claiming it as a self diagnosis. It being diagnosed more than it should be is due to the treatments for it being effective in children who might not have it but need some sort of medication to function. Schools cant handle children that don't behave in the way they are expected to and look for an outlet for someone else to solve this for them. There is no aspect of laziness in 'real' ADHD, the issue comes with lack of concentration and frustration with trying to perform tasks. This is what I understand of it as far as my discussions with professionals have been.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:39 PM   #54466
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

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Agreed. They're actually the biggest frauds since the Lakers.
That's rich coming from a Jets homer.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:40 PM   #54467
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

I think this discussion points out the huge problems in treating all mental disorders, not just ADHD. Many of the thresholds used to diagnose patients are extremely arbitrary and based on ****ty science. In addition, the characterization of what constitutes a 'disorder' are based on social expectations of individuals, not neurobiology.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:42 PM   #54468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmyBasis View Post
I think this discussion points out the huge problems in treating all mental disorders, not just ADHD. Many of the thresholds used to diagnose patients are extremely arbitrary and based on ****ty science. In addition, the characterization of what constitutes a 'disorder' are based on social expectations of individuals, not neurobiology.
This might be the most wrong post in SE history
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:50 PM   #54469
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Originally Posted by Krayz View Post
This might be the most wrong post in SE history
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:53 PM   #54470
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

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There is no aspect of laziness in 'real' ADHD, the issue comes with lack of concentration and frustration with trying to perform tasks.
Yes, I think I (we?) understand and agree with this. What I'm saying is that there is a tendency - speaking from experience - to use ADHD as a catch-all for one's shortcomings when in fact it's a red herring some of the time. Of course that leaves the rest of the time in which case it is a legitimate excuse for many.

This is kind of a pointless aside we've gotten into for some reason and I'm probably not explaining it well.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:55 PM   #54471
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

Why do you think it's wrong?
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:56 PM   #54472
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

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That's not laziness Das Boot. You're looking at it through a lens of not wanting to do it. ADHD is not being able to do it.
You misunderstand the point I'm making. The symptoms I listed are diagnostic symptoms of ADHD that can easily be taken as symptoms of laziness. That's the obvious counterpoint to what you posted, "And laziness has no similar symptoms to real ADHD."

But that brings up a crucial point - how can you separate "not wanting to do something" and "not being able to do something" for tasks that one is mentally and physically capable of completing? Whatever you want to call it - willpower, focus, mental discipline - aren't these ultimately and fundamentally linked? My perception is that ADHD sufferers often have little trouble focusing on tasks that they find interesting and challenging; it's the boring or unstimulating tasks -- the stuff one doesn't want to do -- that cause the problem.

Quote:
It being diagnosed more than it should be is due to the treatments for it being effective in children who might not have it but need some sort of medication to function.
So what do they have? If they fall behind standard development of attention and focus, aren't functioning to their full potential in school due to lack of focus, and meet the requisite number of symptoms from the checklist, what else do you call it? Sure seems like ADHD per the DSM.

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Schools cant handle children that don't behave in the way they are expected to and look for an outlet for someone else to solve this for them.
I fully agree. But children are expected to function in the current school system - it's essentially a social requirement. Most people will not have the power to change society in this regard.

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There is no aspect of laziness in 'real' ADHD, the issue comes with lack of concentration and frustration with trying to perform tasks.
Semantics, as far as I can tell.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:59 PM   #54473
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & Tardiness

kirkland brand tequila ITT

ain't knockin it. kirkland vodka = nutz
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:05 PM   #54474
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You're taking can't as not having willpower or mental discipline Boot afaict. This isn't the case.

As far as you citing the guidelines - the symptoms cause I was referring to - not the symptoms themselves. I don't think of symptoms of ADHD being dislinked from the reason why it occurs. Laziness of not doing your homework wouldn't be a symptom to me but apparently it is by the short snippet you posted? But with all things it's a combination of factors, you can't take a subset of symptoms and say if someone falls under that subset they should be diagnosed with that condition. Otherwise we'd all be schizophrenic psychotics
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:15 PM   #54475
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I've always wondered; is there such a thing as attention control deficite? Because my problem often seems to be too much focus and an inability to not complete tasks. At other times it's more like the traditional described ADHD. I don't really get to choose which mode I'm in.
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