Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-01-2013, 03:37 PM   #53726
CalledDownLight
Toonces the Posting Bot
 
CalledDownLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DUKE FOOTBALL<DUKE BASKETBALL
Posts: 88,404
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

victor, basically your saying that this is a game with a rake so high that not a single player can beat it. thats just silly.
CalledDownLight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:37 PM   #53727
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,797
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Why u so mad
i am upset indeed. bc i like and respect u. but you are so misguided and stupid on this issue it makes me mad. esp since ppl like you will be in charge of implementing it.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:38 PM   #53728
RT
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 42,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
If you had access to billions(?) of poker hands with perfect information on every player, and all the stats that were in HUDs, plus even more stats not in the HUDs, plus had teams of PhD level economists on your staff, do you think you could get pretty dang good at identifying player skill level based on the above information? I do.
No question but what you said seems much more frightening to me then simple BB/100 or sklansky bux matching. It leaves the door open to accusations that you're pairing good river bettors specifically with people that call late bets more often just to increase pots and rake. I'm obv not saying that's what they'd do but even allowing that to be the perception seems silly.
RT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:39 PM   #53729
JaredL
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
JaredL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 22,523
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Tanner View Post
Can you elaborate here? The way you worded this seems...scary.
Seems pretty straight forward to use VPIP, PFR and other metrics with all the hands. They could do stuff like what percentage of the time does a player bet/call/fold on the river with the best or a losing hand on the river. It wouldn't be perfect, nor would it need to be.
JaredL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:39 PM   #53730
RT
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 42,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton View Post
Is usury even illegal if done between two consenting private parties?
Pretty sure it is in most cases.
RT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:39 PM   #53731
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,797
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledDownLight View Post
victor, basically your saying that this is a game with a rake so high that not a single player can beat it. thats just silly.
no, the best of the best can beat it. if im a 2bb winner, i get bumped to the next group. so, i guess i get a few 10s of ks of hands there. now im a 1bb winner for another few 10ks. now .5 for a few moar. now im situated perfectly at 0bb with the rest of similar players.

ofc, another problem is the .5bb/100 is not profitable due to the absurd variance.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:40 PM   #53732
Noze
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Noze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: A League
Posts: 25,712
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Time to sack up and 24 table SNGs gents
Noze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:41 PM   #53733
RT
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 42,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noze View Post
Local ads for tax refund advances have been airing almost nonstop in my area. Never bothered to look up their take but it has to be a hugely depressing amount.
A part time employee in my business had to leave to go give his mother some cash so "she could pay off her payday loan and then take out another". Very sad stuff.
RT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:41 PM   #53734
Ray Horton
banned
 
Ray Horton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: how far we done fell
Posts: 26,879
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
In 1980, Congress passed the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act. Among the Act's provisions, it exempted federally chartered savings banks, installment plan sellers and chartered loan companies from state usury limits. Combined with the Marquette decision that applied to National Banks, this effectively overrode all state and local usury laws
tho
Ray Horton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:42 PM   #53735
Ray Horton
banned
 
Ray Horton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: how far we done fell
Posts: 26,879
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noze View Post
Time to sack up and 24 table SNGs gents
180-mans
Ray Horton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:42 PM   #53736
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,797
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Tanner View Post
No question but what you said seems much more frightening to me then simple BB/100 or sklansky bux matching. It leaves the door open to accusations that you're pairing good river bettors specifically with people that call late bets more often just to increase pots and rake.I'm obv not saying that's what they'd do but even allowing that to be the perception seems silly.
ofc that is wat they would do. anything to arrive at 0bb/100 with minimal variance is fair game it seems. and ppl are actually praising this.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:43 PM   #53737
CalledDownLight
Toonces the Posting Bot
 
CalledDownLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DUKE FOOTBALL<DUKE BASKETBALL
Posts: 88,404
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
no, the best of the best can beat it. if im a 2bb winner, i get bumped to the next group. so, i guess i get a few 10s of ks of hands there. now im a 1bb winner for another few 10ks. now .5 for a few moar. now im situated perfectly at 0bb with the rest of similar players.

ofc, another problem is the .5bb/100 is not profitable due to the absurd variance.
I'd be shocked if the player pools are the same for nl100 and nl5000. thus, you can change you $/hr by choosing to play at different levels.

this is jsut wrong. if youre a .5bb/100 winner you are a winner. variance might make it so your RoR is too high for your risk tolerance and you choose not to play, but thats your choice.
CalledDownLight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:44 PM   #53738
RT
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 42,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton View Post
tho
Learn something new every day.
RT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:45 PM   #53739
dkgojackets
DKGOAT
 
dkgojackets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 86,128
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

this discussion is uninteresting
dkgojackets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:46 PM   #53740
CalledDownLight
Toonces the Posting Bot
 
CalledDownLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DUKE FOOTBALL<DUKE BASKETBALL
Posts: 88,404
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
ofc that is wat they would do. anything to arrive at 0bb/100 with minimal variance is fair game it seems. and ppl are actually praising this.
at the levels where people are making a living pots are at the max rake before the river so it doesnt seem like this should be a worry for 2p2ers.
CalledDownLight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:46 PM   #53741
Ray Horton
banned
 
Ray Horton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: how far we done fell
Posts: 26,879
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkgojackets View Post
this discussion is uninteresting
I can't read your username.
Ray Horton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:46 PM   #53742
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,797
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledDownLight View Post
I'd be shocked if the player pools are the same for nl100 and nl5000. thus, you can change you $/hr by choosing to play at different levels.
you cant change your $/hr bc the site is aiming to make it 0/hr. how are you missing that?
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:48 PM   #53743
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,797
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledDownLight View Post
at the levels where people are making a living pots are at the max rake before the river so it doesnt seem like this should be a worry for 2p2ers.
ok no one is making a living except for durr and that group of the best.

the rest are getting profiled for 0bb/hr. i didnt read it as max rake per pot, but max rake total. in other words, they are profiling you to play with opponents that complement each others strengths and weaknesses to arrive at 0bb/hr for all.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:50 PM   #53744
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,385
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Vic,

There isn't enough liquidity to create so many skill groups that it would be all equal. I'd assume it would be maybe 3-4 different groups, tops, with some form of adjustment for stakes. But that would be sufficient to keep the top 25% away from the bottom 25%, and that alone is a huge improvement from the business's perspective.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:51 PM   #53745
Noze
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Noze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: A League
Posts: 25,712
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Probably just trying to give incentives to play tourneys so they can advertise huge weekly guarantees
Noze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:51 PM   #53746
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 35,385
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
ok no one is making a living except for durr and that group of the best.

the rest are getting profiled for 0bb/hr. i didnt read it as max rake per pot, but max rake total. in other words, they are profiling you to play with opponents that complement each others strengths and weaknesses to arrive at 0bb/hr for all.
Nah, it won't be that sophisticated. That would be nearly impossible (and not worth the effort/money to get there)
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:55 PM   #53747
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,797
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Nah, it won't be that sophisticated. That would be nearly impossible (and not worth the effort/money to get there)
it would also be ideal. so i dont see how you can guarantee it wont trend that way. in fact, i am sure it will trend that way.

like, if the sites were capable, ofc they would implement such a system. moar profit baby.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:58 PM   #53748
CalledDownLight
Toonces the Posting Bot
 
CalledDownLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DUKE FOOTBALL<DUKE BASKETBALL
Posts: 88,404
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
you cant change your $/hr bc the site is aiming to make it 0/hr. how are you missing that?
no, site is aiming for max rake. they dont care what your hourly is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
ok no one is making a living except for durr and that group of the best.

the rest are getting profiled for 0bb/hr. i didnt read it as max rake per pot, but max rake total. in other words, they are profiling you to play with opponents that complement each others strengths and weaknesses to arrive at 0bb/hr for all.
yea, they want max total rake but river bets at 3/6 dont exactly matter since virtually every hand that reaches the river already has $3 raked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
Vic,

There isn't enough liquidity to create so many skill groups that it would be all equal. I'd assume it would be maybe 3-4 different groups, tops, with some form of adjustment for stakes. But that would be sufficient to keep the top 25% away from the bottom 25%, and that alone is a huge improvement from the business's perspective.
yea. If they break every buyin into quartiles of skill then each quartile can produce winners as it is basically a miniture version of the whole player pool.
CalledDownLight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 04:01 PM   #53749
vaya
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
vaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Possible Kill Screen
Posts: 15,159
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalledDownLight View Post
you dont have to turn them into winners to get them to spend more $. you just have to make them more convinced that they could be winners.

also, it will probably turn the low stakes players who are casual students of the game (like a weekend reg who plays 10 hours a week, but holds a day job and deposits $500/week to play nl100) into breakeven players or winners while those players are in the losing player pool as things stand. from my memory of the weekend games (of which I didnt play regularly ever) there are a lot of semi-regs that dont play at other times and werent winners but werent awful either.
Yeah I get that the idea is to keep losing players on the site longer. The skill matching lets donks play other donks rather than get feasted on by regs.

Not sure why you shifted to that discussion from what we were talking about initially, which was whether there will be fewer winners as a result of skill matching.

You don't seem to get that if the skill matching software works optimally that there will be NO long-term +EV players. Of course there will be "winners" due to variance.
vaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 04:02 PM   #53750
chim17
Snowboarding concerts and punk music
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 56,127
Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

Another side issue for the playerbase is that if a player in the "Welcome Room" or whatever they called the easy one after playing 10k hands then they are not gonna be able to think they're good.

Not that this is something PP should care about, but poker being the perfect mix of tricking people into thinking they are good players could definitely be lost.
chim17 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive