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Old 03-01-2013, 01:48 PM   #53651
ClarkNasty
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

So, let's see. SE has better politics discussions than the politics forum. Better religion discussion than the religion forum, better Riverman discussions than LVL's Riverman TR thread, and now better poker discussion than the poker forums.

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Old 03-01-2013, 01:49 PM   #53652
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The mods suck dick though
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:51 PM   #53653
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

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The mods suck dick though
oh god, someone made sgt rj a SE mod?
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:53 PM   #53654
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

How much would it help just to have online seating be similar to live? So you just click somewhere that you want another table and it puts you on the list with an opening or you start a new table with people when X people are on the list and there are no empty seats. Wouldn't this stop a lot of the fish stalking that is a problem, from the poker site's perspective?
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:54 PM   #53655
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

lulz at that goal
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:54 PM   #53656
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party poker idea is clearly intelligent assuming the code they have is efficient.
Yeah if I'm understanding correctly this is brilliant for PP
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:56 PM   #53657
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

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as a former grinder (but not of the 10k hands a day variety) who would like to play semi-seriously again I support this. Anything to take the game selection "skill" out of the game and have the playing aspect be the important part of generating winrate and profit is something I'd prefer. I'd even like something as extreme as signing on and being asked how many tables you'd like to play and having it autoseat you at that many tables (like they would in a casino if you walked up and asked the floor to play in a 2/5 game) where leaving means you have to leave all games and wait an hour would be cool. Every serious player knows how to game select so it just becomes a waiting game where everyone loses time.
this is the only regard where i can support something like this. people like leatherass being celebrated for this "skill" despite arguably not being capable of beating a table of average MSNL regs longterm is pretty gross

i just think there are more pragmatic ways to level the playing field than this. removing table selection entirely would be an interesting approach. not so much that you're matched up by skill level, but you're assigned a table at complete random. there are a ton of loopholes to this, but that's for smarter people than i to solve. you don't even have to put a table cap if you just remove huds. 24 table grinders would instantly become the biggest losers on the site
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:56 PM   #53658
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

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How much would it help just to have online seating be similar to live? So you just click somewhere that you want another table and it puts you on the first on the list with an opening or you start a new table with people when X people are on the list and there are no empty seats. Wouldn't this stop a lot of the fish stalking that is a problem, from the poker site's perspective?
yea, thats basically what I was saying above.

within the promotion and relegation idea I think it makes sense to have the winrates they use be based on hours played rather than total hands or dollars. this would allow the average players with 0 winrates to avoid brutal swings and keep them in the player poll for longer. obviously it would require more elaborate code to prevent people from gaming it.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:59 PM   #53659
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

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this is the only regard where i can support something like this. people like leatherass being celebrated for this "skill" despite arguably not being capable of beating a table of average MSNL regs longterm is pretty gross

i just think there are more pragmatic ways to level the playing field than this. removing table selection entirely would be an interesting approach. not so much that you're matched up by skill level, but you're assigned a table at complete random. there are a ton of loopholes to this, but that's for smarter people than i to solve. you don't even have to put a table cap if you just remove huds. 24 table grinders would instantly become the biggest losers on the site
I dont know how much games have changed but I played without a HUD while 16-24 tabling MSNL FR cash for a few years and won at a small clip. I tried using one a few times and I didnt find any real benefits. lol me maybe.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:01 PM   #53660
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

I saw someone suggest removing screen names in the Party Thread. Seems like it could be a good idea, certainly would alleviate a lot of the HUD problem.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:02 PM   #53661
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I dont know how much games have changed but I played without a HUD while 16-24 tabling MSNL FR cash for a few years and won at a small clip. I tried using one a few times and I didnt find any real benefits. lol me maybe.
Odd as I'd think ssnl/msnl is where one would see the biggest benefits from a hud given the disparity in skill and the more consistent player base.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:02 PM   #53662
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

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I dont know how much games have changed but I played without a HUD while 16-24 tabling MSNL FR cash for a few years and won at a small clip. I tried using one a few times and I didnt find any real benefits. lol me maybe.
Fwiw, I was the same way. Found the HUD more distracting then beneficial.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:03 PM   #53663
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I saw someone suggest removing screen names in the Party Thread. Seems like it could be a good idea, certainly would alleviate a lot of the HUD problem.
Bovada (bodog) does this currently.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:07 PM   #53664
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

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Odd as I'd think ssnl/msnl is where one would see the biggest benefits from a hud given the disparity in skill and the more consistent player base.
meh. I found that I could remember styles of all the regs within a month of play at any level and after a few months would have plenty of history to remember bigs pots and certain board texture tendencies. I never found anything in a HUD that could help me here. I just always assumed new players were bad and you can tell what type of bad within 100 hands pretty much always.

I was by no means one of the people who would be grouped in the big winners portion of this algorithm or anything, but its definitely wouldnt cripple players who dont act like human bots. I found the HUD to be exponentially more useful in mtts.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:08 PM   #53665
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

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I'm surprised that on a site of above average IQ people, so many seem to think it's a terrible business decision. It's one thing to say, "this sucks for me but I get it" and another to be all "this is ******ed they have no clue what they're doing.




Not really. I mean, limits on tables, changing the player rewards structure to only reward fish, aggressively trying to stop HUD use, etc. all are viable, but this is the most elegant, effective way to achieve the goal.

The site doesn't really care all that much care if the winning poker player leaves, provided there's enough liquidity left.


Put (over) simply: There is one source of money, the casual player. There are two outflows: winning players and rake. The site doesn't care about losing the winning players. The sites spend astronomical marketing dollars to acquire new players, and then splits the revenue with the winning players (sites actually get a minority share!).

This move not only disincentivizes the winning players, it converts a certain number of them into net rake generators.
what the move really does is incite fraud. i would be feverishly working on setting up, funding, and employing a method to continually start new accounts that are by default placed in the easy games.

also, i would try to acquire, likely just purchase, accounts from fish.

but really, for the sites, there is a much moar efficient way to elevate profit. just steal. shave off pennies or random dollars from random pots and accounts.

or rig the rng to send pots to lesser players. keep weak players with low account balances in the game. take from winners with hudge accounts. this is really no different.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:10 PM   #53666
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what the move really does is incite fraud. i would be feverishly working on setting up, funding, and employing a method to continually start new accounts that are by default placed in the easy games.

also, i would try to acquire, likely just purchase, accounts from fish.

but really, for the sites, there is a much moar efficient way to elevate profit. just steal. shave off pennies or random dollars from random pots and accounts.

or rig the rng to send pots to lesser players. keep weak players with low account balances in the game. take from winners with hudge accounts. this is really no different.
Just watch Office Space?
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:16 PM   #53667
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

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Just watch Office Space?
ya that works. or just randomly every once in awhile rake an extra amount, like 50c. obv ppl will notice pennies out of pots. but if you skim an extra 50c or dollar that may work. mebbe not.

even moar efficient and stealthy would be to just steal a few dollars out of long dormant accounts or super high volume multitablers. no way those dude keep track of xxx13.73 or xxx11.23.

morally its the same in my mind.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:17 PM   #53668
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

It's obviously nowhere near the same morally because they are telling you it is happening.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:19 PM   #53669
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

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ya that works. or just randomly every once in awhile rake an extra amount, like 50c. obv ppl will notice pennies out of pots. but if you skim an extra 50c or dollar that may work. mebbe not.

even moar efficient and stealthy would be to just steal a few dollars out of long dormant accounts or super high volume multitablers. no way those dude keep track of xxx13.73 or xxx11.23.

morally its the same in my mind.
I agree. I would feel the same way about my boss telling me I had to produce more to earn my current salary than I would if he stole a $20 bill out of my wallet on my desk everyday.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:22 PM   #53670
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

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It's obviously nowhere near the same morally because they are telling you it is happening.
they didnt tell ppl it was happening. ppl found out by analyzing data (something that the poker rooms attempt to squash) and then party admitted doing so.

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I agree. I would feel the same way about my boss telling me I had to produce more to earn my current salary than I would if he stole a $20 bill out of my wallet on my desk everyday.
this is why ppl should avoid analogies in general and esp on the internet.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:23 PM   #53671
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

lol soccer
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:23 PM   #53672
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they didnt tell ppl it was happening. ppl found out by analyzing data (something that the poker rooms attempt to squash) and then party admitted doing so.
Oh, sorry, that is really shady then.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:26 PM   #53673
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So, let's see. SE has better politics discussions than the politics forum. Better religion discussion than the religion forum, better Riverman discussions than LVL's Riverman TR thread, and now better poker discussion than the poker forums.

SE4MVP
Meh, easy to do this when you get to cherry pick your issues.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:26 PM   #53674
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

if this is standard practice, and since clark is some middlewig gambling honcho, i would imagine it will be, then i am devoutly against online poker being legalized. it is no longer a game of skill. just another lottery like tax on degens.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:27 PM   #53675
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog & FREE MONEY!!!

The one argument I can think of against PP skill matching is that this move will cut down the number of winners, and seeing other people win is probably at least part of what keeps casual/losing players coming back. Moneymaker is obviously the biggest example of this.

Say what you will about someone like leatherass, but I'm sure there are tons of players trying to do exactly what he does, except most of them are of course losing players.

To be clear, I'm not saying that this is a bad move for PP at all, just pointing out one possible counterargument.
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