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Old 02-13-2013, 06:39 PM   #51201
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

Definitely no way to reduce human population other than atrocities caused by religion.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:40 PM   #51202
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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Sounds similar but I stopped at agnostic because it doesn't require believing anything, thus it appeals to my sense of not giving a ****. Say you're atheist and you risk offending the religious or even worse having them engage you in dialogue about it. Ugh.

Having kids are for fish, but I do understand the idea behind raising a child in a religion as a way to help them learn right from wrong etc. I don't know if there is an easy way to do this in a godless setting.
The Dalai Lama has written extensively on exactly how to do it. It's compelling, awesome stuff. Totally breaks down that mythology in a way that is respectful to all humans regardless of faith (and imo superior to the "because god said so" approach that is so common).

In fact, I will purchase one (1) copy of one of his most recent books on the topic for any SE regular who asks. Kindle or hard copy, I don't care which. The book you will receive is:

Beyond Religion - Ethics for a Whole New World
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:40 PM   #51203
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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As someone who isn't religious I do find the outspoken anti religion people far more obnoxious to me than the outspoken religious people.
I kind of feel like it's important to be at least a little outspoken given the power that religious forces have at all levels of government, and how quickly and aggressively they school to shoot down alternative thoughts.

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Anarchist,

If you think religious reasons were the sole (or even driving) factor behind "outlawing online poker," then you are mistaken.
Meh, don't really agree with this..........

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Yeah, religion wasn't in the rationale.

We can get meta with how religion is abused in certain sub-cultures to lay the foundation for people to submit to politicians who lay down immoral policy, but that's a different discussion for another thread, certainly in another forum.
........the meta aspect is more important. Plenty of "gambling bad" people who want nothing to do with it. There is such a strong puritanical backbone to so many of our silly laws regarding gambling, drugs, prostitution, alcohol, etc that religion is ALWAYS a significant, and typically overriding reason for policy. At least until the financial incentives or public outcry reach huge levels.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:42 PM   #51204
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

Ive always just assumed we live in some sort of simulation. Basically living in another civilization's Sim City game. I mean, knowing what we know today, it seems pretty likely that billions and billions of such games will be made, so it kinda follows that its pretty unlikely we arent already in one.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:42 PM   #51205
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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We could use less people on Earth tbh.

Sad to say religion will decline as human prosperity improves.
Education is the correct word, though it's obviously linked with prosperity. Education, information on the internet and a slow, steady reduction of the stigma of not being religious coupled with all of the very obvious hypocrisy associated with some of the core religious tenets of many faiths all contribute. But education is the most important of these imo.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:46 PM   #51206
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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Religion has been the single most destructive force in human history, and is the primary factor in the vast majority of the worst atrocities ever perpetuated.

Also, it is made up. It is so infuriating when people are somehow treated as morally superior for being religious when really it just reflects a lack of independent thought and reasoning ability.
On the one hand, this is true. On the other, if it weren't religion it'd be some other justification.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:49 PM   #51207
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

Not to interrupt our current programming, but here's a nice Grantland write up on our boy the Jeopardy! champion

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...-just-got-real
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:50 PM   #51208
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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If bad men didn't have religion available for abuse to evil ends, then they'd find something else. Christianity has historically been a convenient pretext, but is generally not the real driving force behind malicious acts. Our example of online poker prohibition readily shows that.

The nuclear bomb made the end of the world a grim reality, especially during the cold war. Does that mean all science is thus unhelpful and bad? Of course not.

Do note: I just watched the movie Equilibrium last night for the first time. Perhaps that shades my thoughts :-P.
Good post.

I mentioned earlier of how religion has made it easier to exploit people, but this is more evil people using religion to exploit naivete than religion being a cause for religious people supporting evil acts by those in power where it exists.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:50 PM   #51209
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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Religion has been the single most destructive force in human history, and is the primary factor in the vast majority of the worst atrocities ever perpetuated.

Also, it is made up. It is so infuriating when people are somehow treated as morally superior for being religious when really it just reflects a lack of independent thought and reasoning ability.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:52 PM   #51210
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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The Dalai Lama has written extensively on exactly how to do it. It's compelling, awesome stuff. Totally breaks down that mythology in a way that is respectful to all humans regardless of faith (and imo superior to the "because god said so" approach that is so common).

In fact, I will purchase one (1) copy of one of his most recent books on the topic for any SE regular who asks. Kindle or hard copy, I don't care which. The book you will receive is:

Beyond Religion - Ethics for a Whole New World
Really? I'd love to read this.

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Originally Posted by daca View Post
Ive always just assumed we live in some sort of simulation. Basically living in another civilization's Sim City game. I mean, knowing what we know today, it seems pretty likely that billions and billions of such games will be made, so it kinda follows that its pretty unlikely we arent already in one.
Yeah, I can't wait until advanced quantum / space physics proves we are basically in The Matrix.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:54 PM   #51211
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

I don't think you can say "If religion didn't exist, people would use something else to exploit the masses" so freely. Yeah, it may be true to a degree, but the fact that religion has a means by which to indoctrinate people from a young age that ETERNAL TORTURE AWAITS THEM if they do not follow this strict set of laws regards of how those laws contradict the observable world and their own capacities for rational thought and human compassion gives religion a degree of power other institutions just don't have.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:54 PM   #51212
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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People oft judge a religion, especially Christianity, by its most obnoxiously vocal members. That's not to say I blame people for doing so: it's the most obvious and readily available evidence.

However, many of the things people find annoying about "Christians" are not elements of the teaching of Christ and are oftentimes even discouraged by the Bible.

Being a Christian is about a spiritual discipleship of Christ. Being "religious" has often taken on a much different meaning in modern society. It's easy to draw comparisons between the Biblical Pharisees (whom Christ often taught against) and the people many of you find offensive.
This is the common counterargument, but ultimately I don't buy it. Some of what Christians, Muslims, Jews believe/teach is not good stuff, and it's obvious in the impact those fundamental beliefs have on the political landscape of the country and world we live in. There is some messed up stuff in the historical/foundational documents of these faiths. Just hand waving things away as "oh, that's not the religion's fault" is a cop out. At some point, yes, all the actions of these people in the name of religion actually is religion's fault.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:56 PM   #51213
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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Really? I'd love to read this.
Sure. Offer open to any SE regular. Just PM me and we can figure out details (which just means I need either a mailing address or a kindle email account address).
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:58 PM   #51214
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

lol at donating to Catholic charities
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:58 PM   #51215
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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This is the common counterargument, but ultimately I don't buy it. Some of what Christians, Muslims, Jews believe/teach is not good stuff, and it's obvious in the impact those fundamental beliefs have on the political landscape of the country and world we live in. There is some messed up stuff in the historical/foundational documents of these faiths. Just hand waving things away as "oh, that's not the religion's fault" is a cop out. At some point, yes, all the actions of these people in the name of religion actually is religion's fault.
To follow up on this, lots of religions have teachings on how to do good. But so do lots of secular teachers. Just doing good is what is important, not the rules and window dressing.

One reason Christanity has gotten a bad name is because of the rise of "Contract Christianity"-- basically, sign your name on the "I believe" dotted line, and what you did before and do after doesn't matter. You're saved because you believe and you believe because you're saved. (Personally, I've known people like this, and they more than almost any other people I've known can be thoughtless, petty, and cruel-- because their primary beliefs in driving their actions are that they are better that non-saved people and it doesn't matter what they do.)
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:01 PM   #51216
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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The Dalai Lama has written extensively on exactly how to do it. It's compelling, awesome stuff. Totally breaks down that mythology in a way that is respectful to all humans regardless of faith (and imo superior to the "because god said so" approach that is so common).

In fact, I will purchase one (1) copy of one of his most recent books on the topic for any SE regular who asks. Kindle or hard copy, I don't care which. The book you will receive is:

Beyond Religion - Ethics for a Whole New World
As an ethics nerd, I'm wishlisting this. Thanks for the rec.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:06 PM   #51217
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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This is the common counterargument, but ultimately I don't buy it. Some of what Christians, Muslims, Jews believe/teach is not good stuff, and it's obvious in the impact those fundamental beliefs have on the political landscape of the country and world we live in. There is some messed up stuff in the historical/foundational documents of these faiths.
I can only speak to Christianity. I'd more than willingly engage you privately (merely because the time and thought necessary for a contemplative reply doesn't lend itself to this medium) in a discussion of anything you find to be "not good stuff" found in the Bible. I speak strictly for the actual teachings of the Bible itself, not the teachings of the Pope or other modern religious figures.

Quote:
Just hand waving things away as "oh, that's not the religion's fault" is a cop out. At some point, yes, all the actions of these people in the name of religion actually is religion's fault.
The only way to prevent something from potentially being exploited to evil means is to not exist at all. If spirituality didn't exist, do you really, truly believe all the historical wars and violence you vaguely reference wouldn't have happened? And that we'd all be living in relative world peace and harmony?

Leaning back on the movie I watched last night: "War is ultimately the fault of human emotion" is a silly thing to say. Is it better, then, that human emotion doesn't exist at all? Is it better that science stop progressing so we don't develop any more weapons of war?

Fault is a funny word.

Last edited by Karak; 02-13-2013 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:10 PM   #51218
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog and Free Dalai Lama Book

That book looks real interesting, I can pick it up myself. I'll give it a look.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:11 PM   #51219
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog and Free Dalai Lama Book

lol great title change
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:12 PM   #51220
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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To follow up on this, lots of religions have teachings on how to do good. But so do lots of secular teachers. Just doing good is what is important, not the rules and window dressing.

One reason Christanity has gotten a bad name is because of the rise of "Contract Christianity"-- basically, sign your name on the "I believe" dotted line, and what you did before and do after doesn't matter. You're saved because you believe and you believe because you're saved. (Personally, I've known people like this, and they more than almost any other people I've known can be thoughtless, petty, and cruel-- because their primary beliefs in driving their actions are that they are better that non-saved people and it doesn't matter what they do.)
This is true. People often try to absolve bad acts through hollow faith that they don't actually have. It lends them the high ground. It certainly isn't a teaching of the true faith.

"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."

The rest of the chapter goes onto explain that deeds are a result of faith and show its existence, but don't initiate the faith itself. "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. "

(James 2)
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:22 PM   #51221
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog and Free Dalai Lama Book

more baller jeopardy kid
less religious AIDS
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:26 PM   #51222
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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Not to interrupt our current programming, but here's a nice Grantland write up on our boy the Jeopardy! champion

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...-just-got-real
The best part of this is that if the Indian kid had got it right, he would have lost. Nothing is ever topping the snowboarder who celebrated too soon on the final jump at the Olympics, but that would have been as close as is possible during the Teen Jeopardy tournament
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:27 PM   #51223
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Definitely no way to reduce human population other than atrocities caused by religion.
Bring on the vaccines IMO.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:27 PM   #51224
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog and Free Dalai Lama Book

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Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
The Dalai Lama has written extensively on exactly how to do it. It's compelling, awesome stuff. Totally breaks down that mythology in a way that is respectful to all humans regardless of faith (and imo superior to the "because god said so" approach that is so common).

In fact, I will purchase one (1) copy of one of his most recent books on the topic for any SE regular who asks. Kindle or hard copy, I don't care which. The book you will receive is:

Beyond Religion - Ethics for a Whole New World
just buying it myself would prob be easier but as someone who loves making similar offers, i accept yours
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:29 PM   #51225
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Re: SE FAQ, Liveblog, & Ten Years with an 18-year old girl

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I don't think you can say "If religion didn't exist, people would use something else to exploit the masses" so freely. Yeah, it may be true to a degree, but the fact that religion has a means by which to indoctrinate people from a young age that ETERNAL TORTURE AWAITS THEM if they do not follow this strict set of laws regards of how those laws contradict the observable world and their own capacities for rational thought and human compassion gives religion a degree of power other institutions just don't have.
20th century Communist regimes using cults of personality say "hi."
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