plus the fact we could understand the Joker and we knew what he was about and why we hated him (thoroughly enjoyed as well ldo).

I honestly don't feel capable of ranking it without a second viewing. It was such a dense movie, and I am soooo familiar with Begins and Knight that I feel it is unfair to rank it after a single showing. It seems clearly a damn good movie though. 6/10 seems absurd.

The Joker also needs far less set up because the Joker has already been part of the public consciousness for decades.

I posted this already in the OOT thread, but I think Joker just fit perfectly into Nolan's world. A psychotic killer fits into the dark, somewhat realistic Gotham that he created far better than the more supernatural League of Shadows affiliated villains.

Yup. Crazy guy bent on chaos is such a better, more credible bad guy than cultist ninja assassins.

Just in general, comics suffer from huge issues with villain motivations, especially on a large scale- and one of the reasons the Joker works so well is that both he, and the terror he generates are so plausible.

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This is also why the Two-Face plot in TDK feels so contrived, comparatively

HOW DARE YOU SAVE MY LIFE BUT FAIL BY SECONDS TO SAVE MY GIRLFRIEND'S

Who's death is going to cause me to:

TDKR Spoiler:

are you saying thats not plausible?

TDKR was so bad compared to TDK

By itself it's a good action flick but man. Bane sucks too.

Ben Roethlisberger was the real villain of the movie

I think it's rough to compare Joker to Bane as there's not much of a contest there, imo. Ledger's Joker is going to go down as an iconic movie villain and is one of the best performances I've seen in any film. That's an impossible act to follow, but I think within the scope of TDKR Bane is still a pretty awesome character, too.

Yeah Ledger totally killed it

why was Bane so awesome? Not trying to be a wise ass, curious. As I said earlier the movie came across as a mess to me.

When movies can't figure out a good villian vs the super hero I hope one day some director just says "**** it" and makes Kefka the villain.

Only if they can get the 16-bit version of his music to play every time he comes on screen.

Also give Leo a bigger role. I feel like he could have been an awesome character, but he gets offed like 5 minutes after being introduced.

BTW, wanted to say that I saw a preview for Tarantino's new film with Jamie Foxx and DiCaprio and I think it could be very interesting. I guess its "similar" to Inglorious Basterds in killing Slave Owners instead of Nazi's. But I'm interested.

And his laugh must be the same as it is in the game.

But seriously, Kefka would make the ultimate villain.

The combination of his physical presence, calculated intelligence, and the fact he was a psychopath made for an interesting Batman villain. He was basically the polar opposite of Joker (though Joker obv had brains too) and I'd argue that he was even scarier because he knew exactly what he was doing at all times and knew he could get away with it. I got a kick out of watching the plan unfold because he just seemed like such an insane badass villain.

Big spoiler warning:



Finally, I'd give a lot of credit to Tom Hardy for what he brought to the role. It's a given that he's a massive dude, but the voice and mannersims were just so strange and original, it made the character super creepy in a cool way (it actually reminded me of a less German-tinged Dr. Killinger, which I found pretty funny).

sheeeit, that got me too

shaping up to be a very interesting season

This pretty much nails it on the head. If you do go see it again for whatever reason (or when it's out on DVD) watch that first fight scene.

Hey guys, I know some of you are cat lovers, (others hate them) but today was a pretty awful day for me. I just got home from the animal hospital, where I was basically yanked around constantly. I had been at the vet earlier, where they basically said I needed to rush my older cat to said animal hospital. She's there now and they are unclear how bad it is (decent chance of cancer; if I'm lucky, it's a fungal infection, which is also pretty severe), and the truth is the bills for treatment or so are insanely exorbitant. In any event, I'm pretty miserable about this, since I am pretty sure she will die soon. Which in some ways is worse than her actually dying, since now I'm just anticipating it. Sorry to post this here, but it seemed like a decent place for it. Anyway, carry on.

Sorry to hear about this Bobbo, that sucks. How old?

Yeah, the desire to keep a pet alive versus cost/their quality of life is always an awful debate. Sorry Bobbo.