You sure? This is the same guy who complained about us having too many different types of deodorant.

Yeah, I am pretty sure. His whole platform core playbook of talking points is philosophical positions. I certainly concede that the "how" question is a fair one but that's a different conversation.

What is the philosophical point? That college is more important than a home? Politicians' rhetoric of how essential college is is what's made it insanely expensive in the first place, and there aren't even any jobs available post education. His position is ridiculous and the implications are economically disastrous.

Keep in mind he's in my Top 5 POTUS mixture so it's not like I'm just hating to hate, I appreciate his anti-establishment stances.

I looked up my undergrad college's current costs a couple days ago. It's like $45,200 for tuition and $11,500 for room and board. Who the hell can pay for that without almost a full-ride scholarship? It's insane. Then you graduate with no discernible skills and are in a huge whole. Murrica!

[QUOTE=SirOsis;48964468]I looked up my undergrad college's current costs a couple days ago. It's like $45,200 for tuition and $11,500 for room and board. Who the hell can pay for that without almost a full-ride scholarship? [QUOTE]


Someone with a massive trust fund.

It's a banking scam that the government is complicit in. Taking more from the citizens is not the solution.

[QUOTE=AcTiOnJaCsOn;48964500][QUOTE=SirOsis;48964468]I looked up my undergrad college's current costs a couple days ago. It's like $45,200 for tuition and $11,500 for room and board. Who the hell can pay for that without almost a full-ride scholarship? Or you destroy the SAT and the ACT and graduate as valedictorian. I just don't get it, you go to public school basically for free from 1st to 12th grade, then get fleeced after that if you don't have a hefty scholarship. Like what did I have to pay for in high school, lunch? Basketball shoes? Prom? That doesn't end up with you being in huge debt. But your next school can potentially financially destroy you. And you HAVE to go, because every decent job outside of a standard trade requires a degree.

1st-12th = Public funded daycare with behavior bonuses

Most schools that expensive "meet your demonstrated need." So the joke is close to accurate about it only being trust fund kids who pay that much.

Need-blind admissions and need-based financial aid.

Oasis, I agree. I actually like the idea of college and what it tries to accomplish, but not enough majors truly prepare students for jobs. I talk to so many students who just graduated and can't find a good job because they dont have job "experience." That's really the issue. There's a big disconnect between college and the real world.

The other issue with free college is that if you offer free college then a lot of people who are uninterested in college or otherwise have no business being in college because it doesn't advance their future employment status end up going. If 4 years of little or no responsibility is offered for free then almost everyone ends up taking you up on it.

amazing

what's so amazing about that? Say I want to be a plumber or something. Why would I pass on 4 years of partying at a state school for free even though it provides no benefit to me from an educational perspective?

Are they proposing to let any Joe the Future Plumber into college, or providing free tuition to those who have the aptitude in the first place?

I believe they want to both increase access, but they certainly want to do the latter. The issue with the latter is that there are plenty of people who are smart enough to go to college, but right now do not because they are smart enough to know that it will provide little benefit to them in their career goals. If you make it free they don't care that they get little career benefit because they aren't making any financial sacrifices to attend and the lifestyle is preferable to starting work.

Okay well I haven't heard anything about lowering admissions standards but I'll gladly read whatever literature you'd like to leave with my secretary.

the point is that the current standards can be met by a large number of people who rationally choose to not go to college, but would rationally attend if free. Also, there are a dearth of jobs available to people graduating with lots of degrees and thus it makes no sense for even the current number of people to graduate in those fields. In some fields, such as engineering, we could almost certainly handle a lot more graduates, but don't have enough capable and interested people.

higher education probably a top 3 scam in the history of the world


undergrad+lawl school especially what a waste of time. i imagine in med school they actually learn stuff useful at least

I went to college because it was free, but I dropped out quickly enough that they actually gave me a lot less than you think. We also have a lot of countries that offer free or heavily subsidized uni, CDL. Once again, your hypotheticals are dumb. At best they are lazy. You are disconnected from real life examples but you think your opinion merits discussion.

Gross.

Your own state does the free college thing.

Mike Rowe on the silliness of the upper education narrative:

(Trigger warning: reason.com)

https://reason.com/blog/2015/12/15/m...s-stop-telling

They are not hypothetical. Also, many (all?) of these other countries who offer free tuition have higher barriers to entry for entering college. The level of students who are admitted to low level public universities in the United States lags behind much of the developed world. If we required a higher bar for admittance and required people to maintain a certain GPA then I would be ok with it. That is not part of current proposals.

Yes, I am aware of both of these things. However, in Georgia it is merit based at least to some degree in that you have to maintain a certain GPA. I am more than ok with free college based on merit. I am not ok with joe schmo getting in on merit (based on current loose standards) then cruising through 4 years with a 1.5 gpa in philosophy on the public's dime.

Free college for all people who can meet a moderate academic hurdle is a good platform. Free college for everyone who can get in based on the current system is a terrible idea.

However, I would also love to see the free college thing only hold if you work in a field where your degree is relevant for X years (probably 5). If you don't then you end up having to pay for it yourself. I can think of tons of things that are better uses of money than paying for a kid's [insert cultural topic] studies degree that will never be applied in the workforce.

If there are a significant number of people graduating from college and then never finding jobs then yeah, we need to do something. That "something" should be better educating prospective students on the actual job prospects they will be facing after graduation. Schools in general do a poor job of this, and some schools (like any given t4 law school) actively mislead students in order to increase enrollment numbers.

The solution is not to arbitrarily make it harder to go to college, though.

Your original point was just a silly strawman. If someone wants to go bum around for four years in college rather than going to work, they can (and do, in some cases) do that now. Anyone who can sign their name can get a student loan. That doesn't mean they're going to be able to sit on their asses for 4 years and not go to class. I know, because I tried that myself one semester. I found myself on academic probation shortly thereafter with the promise of being kicked out of school entirely if my grades did not improve. What you're describing simply does not exist in any meaningful way and giving students relief from the ridiculous tuition burden (followed by a lifetime of soul-crushing non-dischargeable debt) won't suddenly make it start happening.

And yes thayer there is an appalling shortage of welders et al. Does reason dot com explain why the free market has not addressed this? Is it that people just don't want to weld, or that they don't want to weld for the wages offered at current market rates? The article doesn't appear to say, it just ****s on four year degrees while offering little in the reasons-why and nothing at all in the solutions-to.

I mean, ****, there's an acute shortage of citrus-pickers here in FL but I'm not sure how that's the University of Florida's fault.

That said, I'll readily admit that this country has ignored vocational-technical education for a generation now, and that needs to change. Maybe idk make it free to learn those skills at a community college to make it more attractive?