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SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics)

07-24-2016 , 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Sandwich
My life is objectively great. I have a loving, supportive family, I've lived in Manhattan for the past nine years, and I have a good job that I enjoy that's part of a successful, growing business.
Huh, weird, another guy with no economic anxiety but a real strong grasp on his white nationalist meme usage("Current Year", etc.) to mock people who give even the slightest **** about the poor or the oppressed.

How many of your list of black and Jewish friends have you shared the light of Daddy Trump with?

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tl;dr: Fly, stop picking these insanely personal fights on the internet and start lifting.
See this ****? Sando was loving life, ****posting up a storm, but whoops some people disagreed with him on the internet. This was intensely personal and confrontational.

The internet is for saying bad things about Muslims AS A GROUP, not bad things about individual white people. Come on, let's all get along and be chums!
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07-24-2016 , 02:50 PM
IQ4ROLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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07-24-2016 , 02:54 PM
Fly,

There are plenty of people who disagree with me about Trump ITT. There is only one person making this thread borderline unreadable: you.
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07-24-2016 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
A healthier society would have smaller corporations, smaller government, smaller communities, and more local and civic involvement, and the beginning of de-scaling is siding with nationalism over globalism, which Donald Trump is the avatar of.
Ah, yeah, local civic involvement avatar Donald Trump, story ****ing checks out.

Who do you think you fool, Sando?

One takeaway from this campaign that is that Trump's constant consequence free lies are encouraging a whole generation of really unconvincing liars to try passing off increasingly implausible creative writing exercises as the truth.

No, dude. Just no.
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07-24-2016 , 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
Ah, yeah, local civic involvement avatar Donald Trump, story ****ing checks out.

Who do you think you fool, Sando?

One takeaway from this campaign that is that Trump's constant consequence free lies are encouraging a whole generation of really unconvincing liars to try passing off increasingly implausible creative writing exercises as the truth.

No, dude. Just no.
Call my bluff then. Point to anything I wrote in that post and I can produce incontrovertible evidence that it's true. How much are we betting?
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07-24-2016 , 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rata
he's a lawyer
nice to see he can squeeze in some legal assistance in between his rabid spamming of the politics forum all day, every day for the past 10+ years of his life
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07-24-2016 , 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Yeah, if this is the case, it's because you're angry from propaganda designed to rile up rubes, not because you actually understand anything.
you should read this http://www.theamericanconservative.c...s-poor-whites/ interview, which is pretty insightful and speaks directly to folks like yourself. liberals who end up being pretty intolerant.

sample below but read the whole thing, it's worth it

Quote:
RD: A friend who moved to West Virginia a couple of years ago tells me that she’s never seen poverty and hopelessness like what’s common there. And she says you can drive through the poorest parts of the state, and see nothing but TRUMP signs. Reading “Hillbilly Elegy” tells me why. Explain it to people who haven’t yet read your book.

J.D. VANCE: The simple answer is that these people–my people–are really struggling, and there hasn’t been a single political candidate who speaks to those struggles in a long time. Donald Trump at least tries.

What many don’t understand is how truly desperate these places are, and we’re not talking about small enclaves or a few towns–we’re talking about multiple states where a significant chunk of the white working class struggles to get by. Heroin addiction is rampant. In my medium-sized Ohio county last year, deaths from drug addiction outnumbered deaths from natural causes. The average kid will live in multiple homes over the course of her life, experience a constant cycle of growing close to a “stepdad” only to see him walk out on the family, know multiple drug users personally, maybe live in a foster home for a bit (or at least in the home of an unofficial foster like an aunt or grandparent), watch friends and family get arrested, and on and on. And on top of that is the economic struggle, from the factories shuttering their doors to the Main Streets with nothing but cash-for-gold stores and pawn shops.

The two political parties have offered essentially nothing to these people for a few decades. From the Left, they get some smug condescension, an exasperation that the white working class votes against their economic interests because of social issues, a la Thomas Frank (more on that below). Maybe they get a few handouts, but many don’t want handouts to begin with.

From the Right, they’ve gotten the basic Republican policy platform of tax cuts, free trade, deregulation, and paeans to the noble businessman and economic growth. Whatever the merits of better tax policy and growth (and I believe there are many), the simple fact is that these policies have done little to address a very real social crisis. More importantly, these policies are culturally tone deaf: nobody from southern Ohio wants to hear about the nobility of the factory owner who just fired their brother.

Trump’s candidacy is music to their ears. He criticizes the factories shipping jobs overseas. His apocalyptic tone matches their lived experiences on the ground. He seems to love to annoy the elites, which is something a lot of people wish they could do but can’t because they lack a platform.

The last point I’ll make about Trump is this: these people, his voters, are proud. A big chunk of the white working class has deep roots in Appalachia, and the Scots-Irish honor culture is alive and well. We were taught to raise our fists to anyone who insulted our mother. I probably got in a half dozen fights when I was six years old. Unsurprisingly, southern, rural whites enlist in the military at a disproportionate rate. Can you imagine the humiliation these people feel at the successive failures of Bush/Obama foreign policy? My military service is the thing I’m most proud of, but when I think of everything happening in the Middle East, I can’t help but tell myself: I wish we would have achieved some sort of lasting victory. No one touched that subject before Trump, especially not in the Republican Party.
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To me, this condescension is a big part of Trump’s appeal. He’s the one politician who actively fights elite sensibilities, whether they’re good or bad. I remember when Hillary Clinton casually talked about putting coal miners out of work, or when Obama years ago discussed working class whites clinging to their guns and religion. Each time someone talks like this, I’m reminded of Mamaw’s feeling that hillbillies are the one group you don’t have to be ashamed to look down upon. The people back home carry that condescension like a badge of honor, but it also hurts, and they’ve been looking for someone for a while who will declare war on the condescenders. If nothing else, Trump does that.

This is where, to me, there’s a lot of ignorance around “Teflon Don.” No one seems to understand why conventional blunders do nothing to Trump. But in a lot of ways, what elites see as blunders people back home see as someone who–finally–conducts themselves in a relatable way. He shoots from the hip; he’s not constantly afraid of offending someone; he’ll get angry about politics; he’ll call someone a liar or a fraud. This is how a lot of people in the white working class actually talk about politics, and even many elites recognize how refreshing and entertaining it can be! So it’s not really a blunder as much as it is a rich, privileged Wharton grad connecting to people back home through style and tone. Viewed like this, all the talk about “political correctness” isn’t about any specific substantive point, as much as it is a way of expanding the scope of acceptable behavior. People don’t want to believe they have to speak like Obama or Clinton to participate meaningfully in politics, because most of us don’t speak like Obama or Clinton.

Last edited by Kneel B4 Zod; 07-24-2016 at 03:30 PM.
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07-24-2016 , 03:39 PM
Nice post KBZ
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07-24-2016 , 03:40 PM
Those people are just unintelligent and racist ldo.
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07-24-2016 , 03:45 PM
Does fly even meet the Criteria for posting itt
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07-24-2016 , 03:49 PM
isn't the problem with this "trump will win because poor whites in Appalachia" narrative that there simply aren't enough votes to be won there to offset Clinton absolutely swamping him in inner cities and the suburbs? there just aren't that many steelworkers and coal miners left in america. those voters represent a rapidly declining share of the electorate, and trump is pursuing them at the cost of total ignorance to rapidly expanding demographics (Hispanics and Asian-Americans) and reliable voting blocs (white college-educated suburban voters). it's this gambit that has basically eliminated VA from trump's map and has locked him into an uphill battle to sweep FL/OH/PA

to wit: https://twitter.com/kkondik/status/755776443788001281 and https://twitter.com/nate_cohn/status/753655560336179200

Last edited by TalkingDonkey; 07-24-2016 at 03:57 PM.
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07-24-2016 , 04:01 PM
add in that if Clinton can bink NC (rapidly growing population of Hispanics combined with relatively large black and growing young educated white populations) she basically forecloses any realistic path to a Trump victory

it's a bold strategy from trump but really forces him into an uphill struggle that he didn't need to create for himself
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07-24-2016 , 04:11 PM
Fly, when you welcome the Muslims into your wife are you going to prep them yourself or is that going too far?
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07-24-2016 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooders0n
I don't see the point your making. Trump losing the white, college-educated vote makes sense to me. He's a moron. It also doesn't mean that the 50+ million people who will be voting for him are all idiots and/or white supremacists.
Estimate a percentage of the 50 million people that believe in angels literally walking the face of the earth?
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07-24-2016 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heh
Estimate a percentage of the 50 million people that believe in angels literally walking the face of the earth?
Pretty close to the percentage of the 70 million people who will be voting for Hillary.
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07-24-2016 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingDonkey
isn't the problem with this "trump will win because poor whites in Appalachia" narrative that there simply aren't enough votes to be won there to offset Clinton absolutely swamping him in inner cities and the suburbs?
Nobody ever said "trump will win because poor whites in Appalachia." The point is that there are many, many different types of people who will vote for Trump for many, many different reasons.
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07-24-2016 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Sandwich
Fly has done a great job making this thread toxic by getting intensely personal with anyone whom he disagrees with. This is his M.O. I guess. But since we're here:

My life is objectively great. I have a loving, supportive family, I've lived in Manhattan for the past nine years, and I have a good job that I enjoy that's part of a successful, growing business. Just this past weekend I went to a stand-up comedy show with a friend of mine who's an Eastern European immigrant on Friday night, went hiking in the Hudson Valley with a beautiful Jewish girl yesterday morning, and my Jewish college roommate invited me to play on his softball team down in Princeton later this week. I just got invited to a wedding - for a black guy! marrying a white woman! - that I'll be flying down south for soon. I'm including these seemingly irrelevant details not to show how not-racist and not-bigoted I am - I'd never make such a bold claim - but to show that I'd make a piss-poor white nationalist, and I'm certainly not mad about losing my dominant position on some made-up totem pole.

But I am a nationalist, meaning I think we should put America and Americans first. Donald Trump is an openly nationalist candidate. Despite my life being good, I think anomie in this country is at an all-time high, with the Labor Participation Rate cratering, inequality skyrocketing, and people dying from opioid addictions, suicides, and atomization.

I don't think Donald Trump can fix this - I don't think anyone can, really - since these things are due to forces of mass society and scale, which no one man can reverse. But I think we as a people can do some things to reverse some of the more harmful effects of mass society on our psychology, starting with not thinking of America as a borderless strip mall with a worldwide police force that should solve other countries' problems. When people talk about nostalgia for the 1950s, they're not wishing we could go back to a time when black people didn't have rights, they're talking about going back to a time when people felt a sense of community and bonhomie. A healthier society would have smaller corporations, smaller government, smaller communities, and more local and civic involvement, and the beginning of de-scaling is siding with nationalism over globalism, which Donald Trump is the avatar of.

And Fly, since you've been bleating about SAT scores, I took that test once and I would bet money that my scores are higher than yours. Not because I think you're an idiot - you seem like a reasonably intelligent midwit - but because mine were very high. But I don't hang my hat on a test I took half a lifetime ago, and I think IQ fetishism is harmful and silly - traits like work ethic, loyalty, and kindness are much more important. Which means I don't froth in rage that my less intelligent countrymen have the power to vote.

tl;dr: Fly, stop picking these insanely personal fights on the internet and start lifting.
Sando,

Is there anything Trump could say or do that would push you off Trump. Is there an a policy so bigoted, racist, or destructive that he could espouse where you would think that the harm of trump outweighs the benefits you perceive. Even if it would be something fairly outlandish, I'd be interested in what it is. No one would be all that surprised at anything Trump said or did at this point.
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07-24-2016 , 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooders0n
Pretty close to the percentage of the 70 million people who will be voting for Hillary.
Honestly, though. I see three reason why people would vote for Trump (and it's entirely possible I am wrong): a) you are unintelligent and believe his drivel about walls and making America great again, b) you are disenfranchised and want to stick it to the political class or c) you stand to gain a lot of money by Trump being in office.

Why else would you vote for a man without substance who is a habitual liar (and this is proven time and time again)?
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07-24-2016 , 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heh
Honestly, though. I see three reason why people would vote for Trump (and it's entirely possible I am wrong): a) you are unintelligent and believe his drivel about walls and making America great again, b) you are disenfranchised and want to stick it to the political class or c) you stand to gain a lot of money by Trump being in office.

Why else would you vote for a man without substance who is a habitual liar (and this is proven time and time again)?
There are plenty of reasons and people can be voting based on combinations of them. They don't have to declare their reason when they vote. When we're talking about a sample as massive as 50+ million people, don't you think it's safer to assume they have their reasons rather than "every one of them are racist, unintelligent, and not a good person"?

I personally can't think of a reason why someone would vote for Trump but I also can't really think of a reason why anyone would vote period either.
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07-24-2016 , 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melkerson
Sando,

Is there anything Trump could say or do that would push you off Trump. Is there an a policy so bigoted, racist, or destructive that he could espouse where you would think that the harm of trump outweighs the benefits you perceive. Even if it would be something fairly outlandish, I'd be interested in what it is. No one would be all that surprised at anything Trump said or did at this point.
Yes, there are plenty of things he could say or do that would convince me not to vote for him.
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07-24-2016 , 04:31 PM
Quote:
President Obama’s Kenyan half-brother wants to make America great again — so he’s voting for Donald Trump.

“I like Donald Trump because he speaks from the heart,” Malik Obama told The Post from his home in the rural village of Kogelo. “Make America Great Again is a great slogan. I would like to meet him.”

The last straw, he said, came earlier this month when FBI Director James Comey recommended not prosecuting Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton over her use of a private e-mail servers while secretary of state.

“She should have known better as the custodian of classified information,” said Obama.
Quote:
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 9h9 hours ago
Wow, President Obama's brother, Malik, just announced that he is voting for me. Was probably treated badly by president-like everybody else!

We going with bad person or unintelligent for Obama's brother?
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07-24-2016 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Sandwich
Yes, there are plenty of things he could say or do that would convince me not to vote for him.
I assumed so, but could you give a few examples. Even if they are far-fetched, they are probably within the realm of things he might actually do. This is not some sort of gotcha. I'm just curious where you draw the line. It's nothing more than that.
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07-24-2016 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooders0n
We going with bad person or unintelligent for Obama's brother?
Well we can't call minorities unintelligent because that's RACIST and libs refuse to admit that non whites could possibly be bad so we got a real CONUNDRUM on our hands.
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07-24-2016 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooders0n
There are plenty of reasons and people can be voting based on combinations of them. They don't have to declare their reason when they vote. When we're talking about a sample as massive as 50+ million people, don't you think it's safer to assume they have their reasons rather than "every one of them are racist, unintelligent, and not a good person"?

I personally can't think of a reason why someone would vote for Trump but I also can't really think of a reason why anyone would vote period either.
You don't have to be a bad person to feel disenfranchised.
All I'm saying is that I am having trouble figuring out why people outside of those categories would vote for Trump. And furthermore, but purely anecdotal, the people I've met who admit wanting to vote for Trump belong almost entirely to group a).
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07-24-2016 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooders0n
We going with bad person or unintelligent for Obama's brother?
he hates gay people. i'm going with ALL OF THE ABOVE.

funny thing is that president trump wouldnt let him in the country, since he's a 'slim.
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