That you can actually overcome any biological urge to have them using logic and reason if you actually want to. Most people won't want to which is ok, but it is still a choice. Hell, even if you accidentally get pregnant you can choose not to have the kid as abortions are legal.

I would if they borrowed $50k to do it, especially if that debt was non-dischargeable.

(Also $50k covered roughly one year's tuition, books, fees, room & board there)

You can't allow student loan debt to be forgiven in bankruptcy. Otherwise every half-wit with a mild amount of financial savvy would declare bankruptcy the day after being issued their last student loan and would be in the clear without paying a penny for college by their late 20s or 30s depending on the time it takes them to complete college and grad school.

why would you have an issue with them borrowing to do it? Why can't they choose to travel the world on a $50k loan if someone is willing to underwrite it? Do you also believe people shouldn't be allowed to use credit to make other large purchases or financing decisions?

I never said they shouldn't be allowed, I said they shouldn't. Because that would be a dumb life choice.

And thousands make that dumb choice annually. Then 10-15 years later they are still saddled with debt and have no retirement savings and can't afford a home and wistfully talk about how different life would have been if they'd not been so utterly stupid at 22.

I guess I don't, I just have an understanding of how everyone I know actually thinks and acts.

You're just massively missing the point and it's laughable that people keep using their own tiny meanigless anecdotal experiences to refute how we've evolved biologically. Even moreso given the bias that we're discussing it here where most people are likely prone to value logic and reason and aren't a true representation of the species.

I've never said people can't choose.

You can, and if you end up procreating, guess what, you'll have passed on a valuable ability to use logic and reason on top of other useful things that resulted in it.

Then again, you might also end up not procreating in which case your concerns over being ready or the right time etc end up showing that maybe you just werent as much of a procreator as you think.

You have very little insight into what drives other people's actions and decisions. Even they don't have as much insight into their own actions and decisions as you probably think.

And a bankruptcy judge promptly tells you to go **** yourself for wasting his time.

This is just such an amazingly clueless quote. You don't know what you don't know.

This Justin Trudeau of Canada could end up being the GOAT.

But we shouldn't, imo, create laws to prevent people from making this choice or any other choice that is crippling financially. I think if people want to make stupid choices with their money they should have to suffer the consequences even if those ripple through the rest of their lifetime.

In the post I quoted above you said most people cannot shut off this urge, which I believe is false. Most people do not have the incentives to shut off this urge and I don't think we, as a society, need to discourage people from having kids as our population growth is at what I believe to be healthy and sustainable levels. However, if you offered enough financial incentive or enacted laws to discourage people from having kids like they did in China then you could surely get people to use logic and reason to resist this urge. Reproduction rates can definitely be altered, even substantially, by policy changes. I don't think we should be in that business, but to act as if the urge is too strong for most to overcome is, imo, incorrect. If these people had substantial incentive (say you gave every woman $10MM when they turned 50 if they have no kids) you would see a lot fewer people having kids.

Clark,

Reasons for Hil>Bernie?

It seems like you believe people who get a degree from the University of Phoenix are doing it knowing it will be -EV financially and they're actually happy with how things turned out. Like every single one of those people is being scammed and is either very unhappy with their decision or is living in fantasy land and pretending spending $200k on their prestigious unaccredited degree was a smart choice and has brought them some sort of benefit.

U of Phoenix has lost half their students over the last five years. The Art Institute parent company closed 15 schools a few months ago. The market is clearly correcting itself, but it's happening at the expense of people who were more or less scammed.

Obviously we don't need to protect consumers from every possible mistake they can make, but the stakes are quite high here relative to just about anything else. And what is the downside?

Super short reason: she is way more likely to be effective. I mean, it's possible the Republicans decide to forever mandate gridlock especially since they despise her but she has the seasoning to get stuff done. She's the epitome of a political insider IMO. Bernie just is too alone in many of his views.

Yeah I get that and that's why I'd be fine with her winning and will strongly support her in the general.

To me though, gridlock is what I expect and don't Hilary will get anything done that Obama couldn't. I also fear she cares about being president more than anything else and as long as she is she's fine with the status quo. Bern would at least be furious and get people riled up over the gridlock.

I am all in favor of outlawing these for profit educational institutions like Phoenix and comparable institutions going forward. However, the people who made the decision to go there still made their own decision. If they did it because they were uninformed or whatever they should have to live with it. If you make an investment and it decreases in value or never really had the value that you paid then you lose the money. If its fraudulent then you can sue which is fine and should be allowed, but you shouldn't get to rely on the government or your neighbor to make you whole on your poor investments.

Why does the University of Phoenix have anything to do with paying for public colleges so that all people can attend them for free though? If you give people the option to go to college for free then why wouldn't everyone who was going to skip college just go and live it up for 4+ years and go into whatever job they would have anyways after spending 4 prime working years on the public's dime?

Also, these proposed plans wouldn't affect schools like the University of Phoenix since they aren't public state schools where there are proposals to make them free to attend so these students would still be adversely affected for going there.

I don't know how my wife and I make decisions, my friends don't know how or why they think, nobody knows!!!

I wonder if my friends even know if they have kids in the first place.

Concur she wants to be president so so badly and that it's a reason to be concerned.

Counterpoint: 7.3 billion people and growing rapidly despite harsh economic conditions in many areas.

Education also plays a big factor in this too obviously.

But like I said, these people are not incentivized to avoid reproducing except in China and through cultural forces in some societies. If you wanted to disincentivize reproduction you could certainly do it through policy that rewards those who don't reproduce or harms those who do.

You probably have a cursory understanding of how you make decisions. But you also probably have never thought about or confronted a lot of what has shaped you to be the way you are. You also probably have an okay understanding of how your wife makes decisions, but you don't have access to her mind and memory bank and have no clue how certain experiences have influenced her.

You also have very little understanding about everything at play biologically that you can't really see, quantify, or understand.

All of that is going on at once and the brain can process it enough that you have a small understanding of how you make decisions.

That's for you and your wife. You know literally nothing about most other people let alone understanding the actions of everyone you know.

Again, you're unbelievably clueless about how little you know and kind of arrogant about it to, though there's obviously an explanation for that that you should explore and confront as a way to griw.

Why?

HILLDAWG #1

could you help me through this process? I would love for you to comfort and hold me as I come to grips with how little I understand about the world around me.

as an aside, my wife and I are debating the 2nd kid choice. if you could make that for us it seems like that would be massive help for us, as you understand us a whole lot better than we possibly could. or is it that nobody knows? I'm confused - I need that comfort after all.