Also "it's okay when our guy signs off on a horrible bill that results in death, he had a good reason." - bros

not exactly sure why you donks keep talking about bernie
he "lost", it's over
he seems to be fully supporting creepy joe now
i don't think continuing the discourse about him is gonna help you any from here, but go off
yall are the election winning geniuses or whatever...

i'd also develop a platform beyond "orange man bad amirite", but that's just me

right so nothing will fundamentally change. sounds good then.

you are massively overemphasizing both the impact of those bills and Bernies influence. theres a difference between voting yes for a bill and writing the damn thing or spewing sound bites for months on end in favor of it.

that said, Bernie is about the bare minimum of someone worth voting for.

also, its a lot easier to disregard a vote or influence on a bad bill/policy when the guy has a long history of being on the right side otherwise and has a deep list of good policies.

but ya continue to tell us how saying some kinda nice things about the NRA in like 1985 is the same as support for locking up a generation of minorities and killing a million Iraqis.

So much going on in this tweet

tfw me and seadood have a better opinion of bernie than very online victor

Part emotional hedging in case Biden loses (I knew it would be the bros fault!), part wanting to avoid talking about Biden as much as possible, and part vinivici having a full-blown bernie bro fetish.

Nah it's 100% Berniebro fetish for us.

You can't have a political conversation without them coming in and tarding things up with their bile towards 90% of everyone and everything.

And Biden isn't losing, he's crushing 45 right now by >2X the margin HRC was at this time. Afaik nobody ITT blamed 2016 on Bernie, although I said in another thread that many did not vote for Bernie because they actually feel that way.

I'm going to try and have an actual discussion with you about this instead of flinging mud.

In my previous post I said idc what Bernie did with policy, and I even offered up rational positions for him making decisions that some might deem hypocritical.

I'll try to reiterate what I said wrt Policy, which is that it's meaningless to argue because there is nuance that's often ignored. Biden didn't vote on a "Bill to kill hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq" or a "Bill to incarcerate minorities", however that is what the propoganda would lead us to believe.

That is imo a big reason why his campaign failed--he didn't read the room and recognize his audience. He went hard after Biden on his vote to give W power to invade Iraq, but he failed to realize that most of America was also in favor of doing this.

We all know now that it was a terrible decision, but at the time it wasn't that clear. Two planes had just flown into the WTC, and the majority of America was shook. You had the Scott Ritter (UN weapons inspector) telling everyone that Iraq was no threat and the CIA telling the Senate (via the president, according to him) that there was. Then there were rumors flying over the news that Ritter had a questionable history of sexual deviance*, and people saying those rumors were planted by the CIA. It was a very confusing time.

Now look at Bernie's criticism, and think about how you'd feel if you were one of those, as most were, who felt the US should remove Saddam from power at the time. Bernie is blaming Biden for a decision that you agreed with at the time! How would that make you feel as a voter?

That's why I don't like policy as a platform, because I don't think it sways voters one bit. What it does do is demonize the other candidate to their core constituency, which I think has the opposite effect. Bernie's campaign run did an excellent job of elevating his appear within the demo that already loved him, but that isn't way to win voters.

Cliffs - You aren't going to win voters when their reaction is "I was there, it was a different time back then."

*Turns out he was a pedo, busted twice for it. It still hasn't stopped him from being interviewed by the left and right however.

Bernie supporters did fine in 2016. Hillary was a 4/10 candidate that ran a 2/10 campaign and still woulda shipped without Russia/Comey. Biden is a 4/10 candidate that can't really run a 2/10 campaign cuz they ain't making the same mistakes twice.

the bros are a small section of Bernie supporters (so we're talking like 2 percent of the population), some who can't even vote, that sow discord and chaos online and are much more interested in primarying or complaining about the democratic candidate than they are beating the republican one. some have even lost their mind to the point that they have turned on Bernie or a threatening violence online. if you think berating them is a fetish, you might be a bro

Seems like an odd critique considering it worked very well for Obama and he was talking about what he would have done if he had a vote rather than Bernie who actually has his vote to point to. It was 50/50 amongst dems when the invasion started and dropped to 75/25 within a year...idk, seems like a big stretch to say many of the voters Bernie needed put themselves back in that 2 year time period rather than the much longer timeline of hating it.

Jfc

ya i can't believe this is happening wrt a guy you just called a 4/10 candidate

incredibly deranged ... are you literally mike matusow?

just a thought here, but maybe stfu about these 2% strawmen already? it's complete & utter aids


hey man, things like "an illegal war in the wrong place that kills 500k+ ppl and destabilizes a region" is just one of those classic whoopsiedoodles that could happen to anyone really, a cost of doing business, and why pencils have erasers. us sensible pragmatists understand stuff like this.


anyway, this biden stuff is mostly a pointless sideshow as he's prob a dog to make it to november upright, and even if he does get there he'll likely disappear quickly after, ceding all power to the bloombergs of the world

luckily they're super committed to making the world like 1% less worse or something #progress

and trump is a 1/10 candidate. thats my entire point

admitting biden is a below average candidate might have been a tactical mistake on my part. in bro land and maga land you never make a concession. you just ramp up the trolling and gaslighting

I think the fetish is giving so much attention to such a small % of Bernie supporters- I mean I'm sure they love the exposure, but holy **** balls it's tiring.

I don't think they will have anywhere near the impact on this election that some will argue (especially if Biden loses, which hopefully doesn't happen), and I'm pretty sure being stabbed in the face with a soldering iron would be more enjoyable at this point than having to open this thread and see more arguments about Bernie bros.

I like your optimism, but rough tables (just generalized for all 78 year-old men) seem to say about a 5% chance of death before November. Almost a 25% chance of dying within his stated one term, but if he lives and runs again he’d be nearly 40% to die during his second! I’m not sure how to factor in the pandemic; it certainly won’t lower it but probably not enough extra to pop him into dog territory. Still worth a sweat, though, and a pretty important VP spot.

Who we rooting for?

So? Vote for no one and have a clean conscience when the 1/10 wins. Checkmate you pragmatic douche.

agreed

they need someone under 60 who people would be comfortable with as prez. odds suggest harris >> klobauchar >> others.

warren would do the best job on the attack, but the economically anxious auto workers in michigan probably don't like her. i think thats a card you play if you think you're the underdog.

There's nuance here that's missing, which eludes to my point about reading the room. Comparing Biden-HRC to Bernie-Biden ignores the climate of the country at the time.

2008 was obviously hell. We had been fighting a meaningless war, the economy tanked, Katrina was a disaster, etc.

2020 pre-Covid (when it was a race), the economy was great, country still being run by a madman, but a peaceful one wrt foreign policy and the use of force. We are nearly a decade removed from a war, one that ended under an administration that promised it would happen, and largely fulfilled said promises.

Now think about this from a moderate's POV. Do you see how a moderate would think "Obama was right, we should have never been there" and then twelve years later think "I'm not really worried about Iraq right now. Besides, Biden atoned and turned into a Dove. Why is Bernie going after him about this now?"

I know that the left won't agree, but the left are the voters that you're trying to convince.

Read the room, imo.

i didn't mean dead, just useless enough that he definitely has to be replaced
(which they prob wanna do anyway)

i mean they can barely get him out of bed like once per month as it is now


if he makes it thru nov it'll be in part bc covid gives him a built-in excuse to lay low, and then he'll either quit or be a reagan-esque puppet


but yeah, i guess there's a decent chance that he also might just drop dead before nov


wut

Assuming it's a woman, I would go Harris>>>>>Klobuchar>Whitmer>Warren>Abrams if it were up to me. I think KH is the clear choice at this point, and I will be disappointed if it doesn't happen.

It would be akin to 2014 and hearing your team draft Doug McDermott with the 11th pick or some ****.

@72o, think like someone who's moderate, then read it again. It's not about owning someone with your knowledge of economics or foreign policy, it's about what the average moderate was thinking at the time. What do YOU think the big issues were to moderates in Feb 2020?

beat me to it...that economy is so great, folds like a cheap suit at the first sign of depression but hey that Stock Market tho.

It's prob Klobauchar...it makes sense that that is what the Biden/DNC camp offered her to drop out...and to be fair it's what I'd expect for her to ask. Warren would be 2nd then Harris.