If you aren’t calling Tara Reade a lying slut on twitter all day for the cause you can’t call yourself a leftie

Depends what you mean by "the left". Overall, people who care about the advancement of left wing politics will show up to vote for Biden, however reluctantly it might be.

Only the tiny minority who care more about their own ego than the advancement of left wing policies will stay at home. But I'm not sure it's correct to call those left wingers. No Joe Bros are not really left wingers in my mind.

If you can't be bothered to vote for Biden against Trump, then left wing policies is just not an important issue on your mind. The end.

No Joe Bros do so much more to harm the advancement of left wing policies than they do to help it. It's not even close. Left wing policies would have a bigger chance of succeeding if all the No Joe Bros disappeared from the Earth tomorrow, by a big margin. Their destructive behavior only helps Trump.

Why even talk about them then?

Because several of them are in this thread?

Are we talking about not voting for Biden or criticizing him? You seem to be going back and forth and its making me worried that I might be a No Joe Bro who’s leftist politics don’t pass the serious strategy test

creepy joe never has and probably never will support any left policies

the whole point of anointing him was that he'd win over fredo voters, so glgl with that


if his campaign wants left outreach they're free to start any day now, but anyone holding their breath for that is probably braindead to begin with

I don't know. Do you spend more time talking about the 1 woman with the ever changing story about Biden touching her shoulder than you do about the 26 women who have accused Trump of actual rape?

So there it is, nothing to do with leftist politics after all

What are you talking about? The people attempting smear jobs at Biden are actively trying to hurt leftist politics. The people who keep pushing untrustworthy accusations against Biden while ignoring the huge pile of accusations against Trump are actively hurting leftist politics.

The main problem is that you still don't understand that leftist politics are completely doomed by 4 more years of Trump.

If a lifelong Republican votes for Biden this year, they will have done more to advance leftist politics than 72off or Victor have.

starting to suspect that you don't know what the word "left" means

Have fun with your MAGA friends in your joint effort to reelect Trump and doom leftist politics for 30 years.

So what's the plan for the left? How do you put money in poors hands and give everyone free healthcare?

I keep asking, but I'm not receiving any answers other than "lol rape apologist", or "you're dumb".

The burden of proof is just as much if not more on the right to explain why universal healthcare works in every other developed country, has for decades, and literally none of them would switch to our system - but cannot work in the US - arguably the richest country with the deepest pockets out of all developed nations.

You can't. There's zero reason other than politics and the lobbying power of the health insurance industry.

That's why the right always has to pretend like UHC is some kind or radical new idea that's never been tried before. Then the fallback position is something about wait times in Canada. And then when it's pointed out that Canadians actually love their healthcare system - the final fallback is always "Duh free ponies".

The fact that the fallback positions have zero logical consistency between the original argument or with each other is a huge tell that this isn't driven by policy but by partisan emotion. IE - does Canadian healthcare suck and therefore no one should want it here? Or do people love it because duh free ponies? Which is it? Can't be both.

I totally agree, I just question why some would go with the option that gives us a 0% shot at this happening vs >0%, no matter how small.

These two lines are both outright lies, but you know that, so whatever, glad I could catch today's matinee.

In other news, Victor, any chance we could get you and whoever this guy is to do a podcast? I'd pay some decent money for an hour of that back and forth:



(I have no idea who this guy is and I don't have my own twitter act. so if he's some dude banned from social media or something, my bad. He just seemed like some GOP douche who said Bernie and Joe were the same)

Biden is centre right even in the ridiculously right leaning US Overton window. Him being elected would by no means be a victory for the left and would be a sign that the window is shifting even further to the right. Don't think the point made by the left mass boycotting the election would be worth another 4 years of Trump but I can see where they're coming from.

I guess it depends on the time horizon you are talking about, but I would say the first step towards achieving this is entrenching it as a policy position of the opposition party, rather than continually nominating people who oppose it (or are financed by those who oppose it). The latter seems like the only option that ensures 0% chance for a longer period of time.

I think there are too many tangibly bad outcomes for people in the next 4 years to not vote for Biden, but in the long run there’s no way electing a right wing democrat as leader of the party sets it up for success.

ETA- what Abysmal said as well

I can respect this take, although I think the former is more likely.. If for nothing else because dementia and age might lead to something.

tannaidz: for the one millionth time, $how ur werk

no empty rhetoric ... what concrete policy is in creepy joe's platform that is for anyone on the left?

the only "olive branch" i've seen is lowing ss by 2 years lolol
(which doesn't matter bc he'll work with his repub friends to bankrupt it anyway)

And that's why it's important to show up and support progressive candidates at primary elections. There are still many congressional primaries left this year where people can support progressive candidates. Congress is likely going to turn more progressive over the coming 10-20 years, and there will be more AOC/Porter/Omar types in Congress. AOC defeated a long time establishment congressman in her primary because people actually turned up in big numbers to vote for her.

The whole process requires people actually turning up to elections, though. Both primary and general. And it also requires Trump being voted out of the White House before he does irreparable damage. Despite what some people say, it does matter hugely whether the next SC judge is another Sotomayor or another Kavanaugh. Also, it matters for the whole planet that the US has a leader who wants to be part of the Paris Agreement.

Biden's main purpose is to ensure Trump does not get to destroy everything. He will likely serve just 1 term and let his VP run in 2024. It's a stepping stone towards a more progressive legislative which can be achieved if people actually turn up to every primary and general election and vote for progressives on all state and federal levels. It's not perfect, but it's the option that is left. Whether people want to accept it or not, the President after the next election will be called either Biden or Trump. There are no other options left.

Plus just imagine if they were actually *counting* all the deaths.

Free college for families making under $125k he adopted from Bernie AFTER becoming the de facto nominee. Forgiving student loans in bankrupcy he adopted from Warren AFTER becoming the de facto nominee.

But of course being against dumb **** like national rent controls = enemy of the left I assume. Those people don't vote anyway so who cares.

lol binary yes/no on a lot of those ... must mean the policies are the same huh

a lot of those proposals are insufficient too

also lol means testing


doubt they'll even try to do most of that (or straight up can't), like undoing his crime bill

or taxing the rich with bloomberg and all the same goldman sachs etc swamp freaks running the show

and if they were actually gonna be eliminating private prisons he'd prob be for legalizing weed (which has like 80% support or whatever) but

where's ubi?