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02-19-2019 , 12:58 AM
Roger Stone is of the “nothing matters” school of thought so he thinks he gets away with that tweet (prolly right)
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02-19-2019 , 01:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT
On a scale of 1-Jesus Christ, how stupid is Roger Stone posting a picture of the federal judge in his case with crosshairs on his Instagram? Kinda feel like that's a bold legal strategy but IANAL
Considering that he posted a grovelling apology a few hours later, I'm guessing his lawyers were also unimpressed with that as a strategy.
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02-19-2019 , 01:37 AM
It was a "random photo taken from the internet." He just got really unlucky with the randomization.
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02-19-2019 , 12:28 PM
Next up: he will try to get the judge recused for bias, perhaps a delay for max pardon equity.
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02-19-2019 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower Man
I agree with you here and don't think I've articulated my point very well, so my bad. What I'm really trying to say is be aware of how your posts read given this seemingly popular movement of using the premise (flawed studies) to discredit all scientific research in bad faith. It's not necessarily as salient as a troll posting fossil fuel-funded studies on climate change. Instead, it's Skaalansky claiming there are no experts in many fields and then realizing how many woke bros agree and are operating under that assumption. They're going to use legitimate critiques of research as free cover for this narrative.

As for the Tribes paper specifically, calling it hot garbage and then saying all studies are garbage is kind of what I'm talking about. Removing the hyperbole, an accurate statement I agree with is that the Tribes study is flawed and all studies are flawed. They run this out as a false equivalence to question science, knowledge, and experts. You might be surprised by how many people on this forum think they know more than the experts or that there are no experts at all.
A fair point. I'm definitely not on that train. And it does sound like I'd be surprised, yes.

I'm probably venting my considerable frustration with neuroscience ATM. It is a long prestigious and even exalted science which just happens to be in its infancy due to a cult-like devotion to the 100 year old "nice guess but totally wrong and on the most important part exactly the opposite of correct" theories of literally just the first neuroscientist who happened to be able to *draw*! Up until a little over a decade ago, any research results had to be able to explain how they neatly fit into their demigod's beliefs or was frowned upon and dismissed out of hand as bad science. Actively attempting to disprove it was outright career suicide, plus colleagues and mentors would try to talk you out of it like goddamned Tallahassee police on a rape investigation. So practically no one did even though to hear them tell it now they *all* hit points in their research where the writing was on the wall. So practically every neuroscientist was either a cultist or a huge pussy for their science or both, and yet (due to being older) those same people are still in charge (hooray for tenure, I guess?).

And now for a football analogy. It's like the 2018 Florida State offensive line predictions; "Last year they were *terrible*, but this year they're *experienced*! Personally, I don't think it's working out very well in this case either; you put Nick Saban in charge and he'd immediately get all the old coots diagnosed with career-ending injuries so he could cut their scholarships and replace them with 5-star recruits! Probably makes the New Year's 6 instead of failing to make a bowl, too.

I did make some money betting against FSU early in the year so was fine with it, but then I did not need FSU to perform unconscionably risky surgery on my wife's brain tumor nor help her recover from it, so in this case I find it much less amusing. I am not an expert though I do know barbarism and am well-informed enough to consider, "There are plenty of promising treatments and approaches which may prove viable in a decade or two." tantamount to, "Sorry for partying instead of starting 30 or 40 years ago when it was obvious to, heh heh, all of us we should."

However, if you're worried I am being "too negative" about this you'll be happy to know that, among themselves, the neuroscientists have decided it was no big deal. Kind of like the (lambs-to-the-slaughter stupid) political decision to *not* investigate and prosecute members of the Bush jr. administration for war crimes because they wanted to heal together and move on from the partisan atmosphere (or whatever insanity sauce the Dems were sucking back in 2008 along with "let's stop raising money!"). Setting aside my personal belief that in general crimes should be prosecuted and especially war crimes should be prosecuted; NOW we get to see people considering THAT a reasonable presidency! I ain't saying all the old neuro guys should be dragged out in the street and beaten like the Bush administration, but I definitely won't accept a neuro oncologist beyond a certain age neither.

I actually don't think the science of polling or even hit-job polling or happy-talk polling (Hidden Tribes) has done anything as egregious, so there's that.
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02-19-2019 , 06:47 PM
****ing Bernie again, really?

Also hate to always bring Australia in here but jfc - this guy was the deputy leader of our country a year ago...before he was found to have a secret lovechild with a staffer. But he's still in parliament!


Last edited by bazooka87; 02-19-2019 at 07:01 PM.
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02-19-2019 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holliday
A fair point. I'm definitely not on that train. And it does sound like I'd be surprised, yes.

I'm probably venting my considerable frustration with neuroscience ATM. It is a long prestigious and even exalted science which just happens to be in its infancy due to a cult-like devotion to the 100 year old "nice guess but totally wrong and on the most important part exactly the opposite of correct" theories of literally just the first neuroscientist who happened to be able to *draw*! Up until a little over a decade ago, any research results had to be able to explain how they neatly fit into their demigod's beliefs or was frowned upon and dismissed out of hand as bad science. Actively attempting to disprove it was outright career suicide, plus colleagues and mentors would try to talk you out of it like goddamned Tallahassee police on a rape investigation. So practically no one did even though to hear them tell it now they *all* hit points in their research where the writing was on the wall. So practically every neuroscientist was either a cultist or a huge pussy for their science or both, and yet (due to being older) those same people are still in charge (hooray for tenure, I guess?).

And now for a football analogy. It's like the 2018 Florida State offensive line predictions; "Last year they were *terrible*, but this year they're *experienced*! Personally, I don't think it's working out very well in this case either; you put Nick Saban in charge and he'd immediately get all the old coots diagnosed with career-ending injuries so he could cut their scholarships and replace them with 5-star recruits! Probably makes the New Year's 6 instead of failing to make a bowl, too.

I did make some money betting against FSU early in the year so was fine with it, but then I did not need FSU to perform unconscionably risky surgery on my wife's brain tumor nor help her recover from it, so in this case I find it much less amusing. I am not an expert though I do know barbarism and am well-informed enough to consider, "There are plenty of promising treatments and approaches which may prove viable in a decade or two." tantamount to, "Sorry for partying instead of starting 30 or 40 years ago when it was obvious to, heh heh, all of us we should."

However, if you're worried I am being "too negative" about this you'll be happy to know that, among themselves, the neuroscientists have decided it was no big deal. Kind of like the (lambs-to-the-slaughter stupid) political decision to *not* investigate and prosecute members of the Bush jr. administration for war crimes because they wanted to heal together and move on from the partisan atmosphere (or whatever insanity sauce the Dems were sucking back in 2008 along with "let's stop raising money!"). Setting aside my personal belief that in general crimes should be prosecuted and especially war crimes should be prosecuted; NOW we get to see people considering THAT a reasonable presidency! I ain't saying all the old neuro guys should be dragged out in the street and beaten like the Bush administration, but I definitely won't accept a neuro oncologist beyond a certain age neither.

I actually don't think the science of polling or even hit-job polling or happy-talk polling (Hidden Tribes) has done anything as egregious, so there's that.
You could probably repeat this for just about every medical science out there. I have extremely low respect for doctors by default. Like my field of programming, it's a profession where knowledge, techniques, tools and best practices are changing all the time, but in programming you keep up with that **** or you don't get hired. In medicine, once you have your degree, nobody is really checking up on you, and there aren't job interviews evaluating whether you've kept your knowledge up to date. Patients generally don't know enough to evaluate the standard of care they are getting.

There are obviously good doctors out there, a lot of them, but they're good because of their own personal dedication. There's not a lot incentivizing them to be good.
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02-19-2019 , 08:11 PM
Bernie’s too nice.

I want a ****ing flamethrower. Don’t see one in the field yet.
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02-19-2019 , 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman
Bernie’s too nice.

I want a ****ing flamethrower. Don’t see one in the field yet.
Bernie will burn Trump Tower to the ground.
Hopefully Trump will be in the building at the time.

Check the record, check the guy's track record.
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02-19-2019 , 08:40 PM
12/1 get right on it people.
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02-19-2019 , 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holliday
.
I'm not familiar with the neuroscience literature but it sounds a lot like economics tbh. The technology to test a lot of the econ theories arrived pretty late in the game while bros were penning elaborate theories of human behavior for over a century and drowning in the Kool-Aid bowl. That's a lot of momentum to topple with a paradigm shift in short order.
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02-19-2019 , 10:48 PM
Have you watched Murray Rothbard inspired youtoobs, tho?
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02-19-2019 , 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDarkman
Bernie will burn Trump Tower to the ground.

Hopefully Trump will be in the building at the time.



Check the record, check the guy's track record.

Just say no to octogenarians.

Riverman/ILP 2020
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02-19-2019 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holliday
A fair point. I'm definitely not on that train. And it does sound like I'd be surprised, yes.

I'm probably venting my considerable frustration with neuroscience ATM. It is a long prestigious and even exalted science which just happens to be in its infancy due to a cult-like devotion to the 100 year old "nice guess but totally wrong and on the most important part exactly the opposite of correct" theories of literally just the first neuroscientist who happened to be able to *draw*! Up until a little over a decade ago, any research results had to be able to explain how they neatly fit into their demigod's beliefs or was frowned upon and dismissed out of hand as bad science. Actively attempting to disprove it was outright career suicide, plus colleagues and mentors would try to talk you out of it like goddamned Tallahassee police on a rape investigation. So practically no one did even though to hear them tell it now they *all* hit points in their research where the writing was on the wall. So practically every neuroscientist was either a cultist or a huge pussy for their science or both, and yet (due to being older) those same people are still in charge (hooray for tenure, I guess?).

And now for a football analogy. It's like the 2018 Florida State offensive line predictions; "Last year they were *terrible*, but this year they're *experienced*! Personally, I don't think it's working out very well in this case either; you put Nick Saban in charge and he'd immediately get all the old coots diagnosed with career-ending injuries so he could cut their scholarships and replace them with 5-star recruits! Probably makes the New Year's 6 instead of failing to make a bowl, too.

I did make some money betting against FSU early in the year so was fine with it, but then I did not need FSU to perform unconscionably risky surgery on my wife's brain tumor nor help her recover from it, so in this case I find it much less amusing. I am not an expert though I do know barbarism and am well-informed enough to consider, "There are plenty of promising treatments and approaches which may prove viable in a decade or two." tantamount to, "Sorry for partying instead of starting 30 or 40 years ago when it was obvious to, heh heh, all of us we should."

However, if you're worried I am being "too negative" about this you'll be happy to know that, among themselves, the neuroscientists have decided it was no big deal. Kind of like the (lambs-to-the-slaughter stupid) political decision to *not* investigate and prosecute members of the Bush jr. administration for war crimes because they wanted to heal together and move on from the partisan atmosphere (or whatever insanity sauce the Dems were sucking back in 2008 along with "let's stop raising money!"). Setting aside my personal belief that in general crimes should be prosecuted and especially war crimes should be prosecuted; NOW we get to see people considering THAT a reasonable presidency! I ain't saying all the old neuro guys should be dragged out in the street and beaten like the Bush administration, but I definitely won't accept a neuro oncologist beyond a certain age neither.

I actually don't think the science of polling or even hit-job polling or happy-talk polling (Hidden Tribes) has done anything as egregious, so there's that.


I’m with you on this one. I’ve seen multiple neurologists now and I see my regular one every 3 months and I’m convinced they don’t actually know anything. I went from thinking they were the best of the best to thinking maybe they actually are just regular people doing a job.
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02-20-2019 , 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
You could probably repeat this for just about every medical science out there. I have extremely low respect for doctors by default. Like my field of programming, it's a profession where knowledge, techniques, tools and best practices are changing all the time, but in programming you keep up with that **** or you don't get hired. In medicine, once you have your degree, nobody is really checking up on you, and there aren't job interviews evaluating whether you've kept your knowledge up to date. Patients generally don't know enough to evaluate the standard of care they are getting.

There are obviously good doctors out there, a lot of them, but they're good because of their own personal dedication. There's not a lot incentivizing them to be good.
Interestingly, this is one of the few areas where I think people generally overestimate expertise. I think it's rooted in the fact that most people acknowledge the large information asymmetry between doctor and patient. Contrast that to, say, poker authors thinking they're right about tax policy implications that a large panel of economics experts from the top universities overwhelmingly disagrees with.
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02-20-2019 , 01:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman
Have you watched Murray Rothbard inspired youtoobs, tho?
Have you seen Walter Block? I'll bet a small amount you can't sit through one of his videos without pausing and without yelling at the screen. Honor system.
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02-20-2019 , 04:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower Man
Interestingly, this is one of the few areas where I think people generally overestimate expertise. I think it's rooted in the fact that most people acknowledge the large information asymmetry between doctor and patient. Contrast that to, say, poker authors thinking they're right about tax policy implications that a large panel of economics experts from the top universities overwhelmingly disagrees with.
I think there are a few factors. One is the social respect traditionally accorded to doctors, another is the huge prevalence of jargon in medicine. Most people are not capable of reading and comprehending medical texts. Both these things remind me of the priesthood - the respect given to them prior to the abuse scandals, and the power granted by their ability to read the texts prior to the Reformation.

There's basically just no structure at all among doctors for evaluating job performance. On one occasion, I had eaten a dodgy meal for my final meal in Thailand and got sick on the plane home. The doctor who visited me told me that gastro is almost always viral and wouldn't give me antibiotics. Like three days of horrible sickness later I saw a travel doctor and her mind was blown. Gastro acquired in Australia is very likely viral, gastro acquired when eating in Thailand - especially when I said I'd eaten at a shady place - is like 99% bacterial. I got antibiotics and was quickly better. On another occasion I was told that a disease the scientific name of which is molluscum contagiosum was not contagious. Seriously. (It is, obviously, very contagious). What are the consequences for this total incompetence at their jobs? As far as I can see there aren't any. Once you're in the club, you're set. I have like 20 similar stories to the above and could soapbox about this for ages, but I'll zip it.

Edit: I'll just say one other thing, which is: what is the point in making all doctors have an 800 year, very expensive degree trying to teach them everything there is to know about the human body if they're going to come out and get basic clinical stuff wrong? IMO this structurally underlies the problem, because doctors are all like "well I spent 800 years training, now it's my right to be a well-paid doctor" whereas not everyone who completes a law degree, for example, gets to be a well-paid lawyer. They have to actually be good at their jobs.

Last edited by ChrisV; 02-20-2019 at 04:58 AM.
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02-20-2019 , 07:46 AM
bernies got this. time to feel the Bern
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02-20-2019 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmower Man
I'm not familiar with the neuroscience literature but it sounds a lot like economics tbh. The technology to test a lot of the econ theories arrived pretty late in the game while bros were penning elaborate theories of human behavior for over a century and drowning in the Kool-Aid bowl. That's a lot of momentum to topple with a paradigm shift in short order.
I was dubious as soon as I heard "rational man".
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02-20-2019 , 10:50 AM
Us sociologists had a hearty laugh at least weekly during grad school about how all of econ theory was seemingly based in "rationality." I know everyone else was laughing at us too obv, but a lack of enough "rigor" is much less problematic than basing everything on the assumption that people will act rationally.

And yeah, I've known doctors to be rubes for a long time. I would prefer to see young ones whose knowledge is more current.
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02-20-2019 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holliday
I'm probably venting my considerable frustration with neuroscience ATM. It is a long prestigious and even exalted science which just happens to be in its infancy due to a cult-like devotion to the 100 year old "nice guess but totally wrong and on the most important part exactly the opposite of correct" theories of literally just the first neuroscientist who happened to be able to *draw*! Up until a little over a decade ago, any research results had to be able to explain how they neatly fit into their demigod's beliefs or was frowned upon and dismissed out of hand as bad science. Actively attempting to disprove it was outright career suicide, plus colleagues and mentors would try to talk you out of it like goddamned Tallahassee police on a rape investigation. So practically no one did even though to hear them tell it now they *all* hit points in their research where the writing was on the wall. So practically every neuroscientist was either a cultist or a huge pussy for their science or both, and yet (due to being older) those same people are still in charge (hooray for tenure, I guess?).

And now for a football analogy. It's like the 2018 Florida State offensive line predictions; "Last year they were *terrible*, but this year they're *experienced*! Personally, I don't think it's working out very well in this case either; you put Nick Saban in charge and he'd immediately get all the old coots diagnosed with career-ending injuries so he could cut their scholarships and replace them with 5-star recruits! Probably makes the New Year's 6 instead of failing to make a bowl, too.

I did make some money betting against FSU early in the year so was fine with it, but then I did not need FSU to perform unconscionably risky surgery on my wife's brain tumor nor help her recover from it, so in this case I find it much less amusing. I am not an expert though I do know barbarism and am well-informed enough to consider, "There are plenty of promising treatments and approaches which may prove viable in a decade or two." tantamount to, "Sorry for partying instead of starting 30 or 40 years ago when it was obvious to, heh heh, all of us we should."

However, if you're worried I am being "too negative" about this you'll be happy to know that, among themselves, the neuroscientists have decided it was no big deal. Kind of like the (lambs-to-the-slaughter stupid) political decision to *not* investigate and prosecute members of the Bush jr. administration for war crimes because they wanted to heal together and move on from the partisan atmosphere (or whatever insanity sauce the Dems were sucking back in 2008 along with "let's stop raising money!"). Setting aside my personal belief that in general crimes should be prosecuted and especially war crimes should be prosecuted; NOW we get to see people considering THAT a reasonable presidency! I ain't saying all the old neuro guys should be dragged out in the street and beaten like the Bush administration, but I definitely won't accept a neuro oncologist beyond a certain age neither.

I actually don't think the science of polling or even hit-job polling or happy-talk polling (Hidden Tribes) has done anything as egregious, so there's that.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
02-20-2019 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman
Bernie’s too nice.

I want a ****ing flamethrower. Don’t see one in the field yet.
So much this. All the **** Hillary pulled and he just laid down and took it like her *****. Also got completely bullied and steamrolled by 2 screaming women at his rally. Gave them the mic! Putin would slap this guy in the mouth.
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02-20-2019 , 02:28 PM
Bernie is nice, but he still has my vote as of now. Not just because his platform is best imo, but because if he gets elected and centrists/moderates/independents and the politically disengaged like what they see, the country's center-point may actually shift left.
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02-20-2019 , 05:09 PM
I see the troll farm is in full swing across social media doing that thing where they try to split the left across lines of "Pro Bernie so **** any other candidate cause they tried to rig it last time you're better off spite voting Trump/staying home/voting for Gary Johnson" and "Bernie is TOO WEAK cause he just took the rigging so you're better off voting any other candidate". Can't blame them, the strategy likely won them the election last time (hell, they fooled me too with all the propaganda but at least I voted correctly in spite of it).
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02-20-2019 , 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
I have like 20 similar stories to the above and could soapbox about this for ages, but I'll zip it.
Ok I have a story. I was one of those people that believed clinical medicine was mostly homogeneous and high quality. After seeking treatment for a debilitating issue for years and never getting even slightly better, I started digging into the med lit. They kept telling me stuff like "you're probably just getting older" or "everyone feels tired." I was thirty, exhausted, and had been coping with it for 20 years. One dude accused me of faking.

I read for about two years and narrowed it down to some candidate disorders, but one fit best due to a few unusual symptoms; got myself to an actual expert who ordered the correct tests. Multiple abnormal results and a tumor consistent with the disease. I'm mid workup when insurance starts declining the orders and I have this conversation:

Lady: There are many fine doctors in your state/network.
Me: Not for this disease. They will refer me back to real experts.
Lady: Well you can't always have the best of everything.
Me: ヽ(ຈل͜ຈ)ノ︵ ┻━┻

Find new local doc (she's good) to proxy the tests. She wants to [drumroll...] send me to Mayo. Still in limbo while we figure out where I can get authorized for a tricky, invasive procedure. I might be three decades deep into an undiagnosed devastating disease. Almost every doctor I've encountered has explained away my symptoms with folksy meowchow.
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