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SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics)

07-18-2018 , 10:44 AM
That would be much better than lolPoles.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw828
Why does heroball hate the Polish people so much?
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOIDS
the most america sentence uttered:
The PR of these suits is mindbogglingly terrible. They filed one in California (can't find a link to this one) and one in Nevada.

The thing is, description of the suits as "lawsuits against" the victims, or as an act of suing the victims, has the merit of being technically correct but is potentially misleading. These are defensive suits where the party in the defensive posture, MGM, happens to be the plaintiff. And, moreover, the argument being made in bulk in these lawsuits was going to come up as a defense in all the victims' lawsuits anyway. Thus, this is in some ways more efficient and adjudication of these suits could avoid potentially contrary rulings in the potentially hundreds of victim suits.

The two MGM lawsuits are for just one thing, called declaratory relief, by which MGM is asking federal courts of exclusive jurisdiction to answer the question whether the Support Anti-Terrorism by Fostering Effective Technologies Act of 2002, 6 U.S.C. §§ 441-444 (the "SAFETY Act") applies to the victims' claims against MGM and therefore precludes recovery against MGM by any victim as a matter of law, or not.

MGM's argument works like this, in layman's terms (by presenting it I am not endorsing it, just trying to explain their position):
  • Contemporary Services Corporation ("CSC") provided security services for the Route 91 concert.
  • CSC was a "Seller of Qualified Anti–Terrorism Technology" at the Route 91 concert under the SAFETY Act.
  • The SAFETY Act allegedly, in MGM's reading, provides that there can be only one cause of action arising out of acts of terrorism if a "Seller of Qualified Anti–Terrorism Technology" provided services at an event where an act of terrorism was committed, and it can only be brought against the "Seller of Qualified Anti–Terrorism Technology," i.e., CSC and not MGM.
  • The shooting at the Route 91 concert qualifies as an act of terrorism under the SAFETY Act.
  • Thus, MGM cannot have liability to the victims because the SAFETY Act provides as a matter of law that the victims of the terrorist act at the Route 91 concert may only sue CSC.
  • MGM acknowledges that the victims dispute MGM's interpretation of the proper application of the SAFETY Act.
  • MGM acknowledges that the victims think this application of the SAFETY Act is completely wrong, i.e., that the SAFETY Act does not bar the victims' claims against MGM.
  • Because there is an actual controversy between the victims and MGM as to whether the SAFETY Act bars their claims against MGM or not, MGM has filed suit to ask the courts with exclusive jurisdiction over SAFETY Act claims who is right in their interpretation.
  • If MGM is right, the claims against MGM will be barred.
  • If MGM is wrong, the claims against MGM will not be barred.
  • This is left unsaid by MGM, but if the SAFETY Act is ruled to bar only some claims, then the victims will be able to proceed against MGM only as to the non-CSC-related claims.

Some takes, other than the obvious observation that this is terrible PR:
  • It places the burden on the victims to retain and pay for competent counsel to argue this highly technical issue of statutory interpretation. That said, they will have no problem whatsoever locating elite counsel for this headline case.
  • It is designed to sidestep the question whether MGM was itself negligent or liable for the events leading to the shooter having a protected perch within not the Route 91 concert venue, but rather within the MGM tower. The complaint does NOT allege that CSC provided any services whatsoever within the MGM tower, which is where the alleged terrorist was when he loaded weaponry into the MGM tower over days and then for minutes fired off rounds at the victims. The only thing the complaint alleges is that CSC provided security services at the Route 91 concert venue as follows: "security at the concert, for example security training, emergency response, evacuation, and adequacy of egress" (Nev. Complaint, Para. 11). I doubt the district courts will rule that CSC is the only possible defendant for claims about MGM's in-tower security being negligent, etc.
  • I am not convinced by the statutory interpretation advocated for by MGM. It seems the SAFETY Act was intended to mean that suits about the adequacy of security provided by providers of qualified anti-terrorism security technology that are brought after acts of terrorism as defined by law are limited to just one cause of action against the provider of the qualified security, and cannot be brought against anyone else. But that would not necessarily mean that victims cannot bring suits in negligence, etc., against others based upon allegations not relating to the security. For example, how can the SAFETY Act require that CSC be the only defendant in all claims arising from the Route 91 concert, including the claims that argue that the negligence that caused the victims' harm occurred either in part or in full next door at the MGM where CSC was not even providing security?
  • MGM may be right about the application of the SAFETY Act to the victims' claims that relate to improper security arrangements within the Route 91 concert venue. For example, if CSC provided the fences and ingress/egress planning, it seems the SAFETY Act may bar claims about trampling / no way out that are brought against MGM because they may only be brought against CSC.
  • Recovery in these cases is going to be really hard even if the victims prevail here.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 11:00 AM
Why is recovery for victims against MGM going to be difficult?

Usually only hear that when defendant is judgment proof.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 11:00 AM
NYT ran a front page article today about Trump maybe kind of losing some dudes in a bar in rural Pennsylvania (lol, nope, they're all going to vote Trump again).

On the bright side the piece did NOT feature anyone looking out a window with their cat or any Ron Paul campaign officials presented as persuadable voters
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnbomb
dems lose a war every single time.

the path to victory for them is ignoring trump, winning elections by ignoring trump and putting up a generic old white dude vs him and not playing identity politics, and then changing laws.


It'll never happen
Running a generic white dude is literally playing identity politics.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnbomb
just because the left screams the loudest doesn't mean that they have wildly popular policy ideas, or even popular ideas
Huge LOL at claiming the left screams the loudest.
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07-18-2018 , 11:23 AM
Its so cute when Raids tries to be smart. Literally has never even came close to pulling it off but never loses the spirit to keep trying.

One of these days
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnbomb
just because the left screams the loudest doesn't mean that they have wildly popular policy ideas, or even popular ideas
And since you don't believe in polls, I guess you arrived at this conclusion based on a thorough, sound analysis of your gut and some sampling of your buddies?
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroball
Why is recovery for victims against MGM going to be difficult?

Usually only hear that when defendant is judgment proof.
Because the theories of liability against MGM are all highly speculative, for example relying upon the argument that this mass shooting was reasonably foreseeable as a matter of law because of other similar incidents at MGM properties (this is only as strong as the prior acts that render this act reasonably foreseeable, if there are any), or that MGM failed to satisfy its duty to take steps to prevent shootings such as this (this is a weak argument because the law does not provide such a duty - the law does not require that one prevent the unpreventable or the unforeseeable), or that an applicable standard of care was breached by MGM because it didn't know what was in his bags or didn't find the concealed security cameras he installed or because its staff didn't enter his room despite the do not disturb request, etc. Those are not easy arguments.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 12:59 PM
i'd like to see the calculations from the MGM PR people and the lawyers that were "hopefully" done comparing the money saved from defending multiple lawsuits vs the PR losses from headlines saying "MGM suing victims of massacre"..
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 01:28 PM
lol lawyers

just quietly settle the cases for a rounding error on your financial statements morons, Wall Street doesn't care about one time expenses anyway
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 02:33 PM
So what Trump meant to say was:

""My people came to me... they said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin; he just said it's not Russia. I will say this: I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be."

He just misspoke and said would instead of wouldn't. Easy mistake to make. So what Trump actually intended to do at that press conference was to publicly call out Putin for lying to his face, whilst standing alongside him in full view of the world's media. This is bold, impressive leadership. No wonder he was so surprised to see such a negative reaction from the American people! One can hardly blame him for assuming that the FAKE NEWS MEDIA must have somehow twisted his words.

Imagine Trump's personal embarrassment when he studied the transcript and discovered that he'd actually made a faux pas and, in somehow omitting the "n't" from the end of one single word, he'd managed to say the exact opposite of what he intended. He must be desperate to put this right, and to really show the world what a bad idea it is to mess with the toughest president in US history. No doubt we'll see Trump strongly condemning Russia over the coming days and weeks. I certainly wouldn't like to be in Vladimir Putin's shoes right about now!
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07-18-2018 , 02:59 PM
Yawn
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 03:00 PM
Bro, Trump just said that they weren’t interfering anymore. Ended it one day. HILARY started it, and Trump ended it. You know what I mean.
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07-18-2018 , 03:14 PM
Dennis Rodman plans on inviting Kanye to North Korea in September

Is this filler plot, or the seeds of a huge twist?
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 03:26 PM
ya they'll obv get taken hostage = FILLER
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perhaps Shimmy
Dennis Rodman plans on inviting Kanye to North Korea in September

Is this filler plot, or the seeds of a huge twist?
Hey, if he goes, Kanye 2020 will have more foreign policy experience than Trump did in 2016.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 09:34 PM
Quote:
The White House has declined to rule out accepting a Russian proposal for the questioning in the United States of Americans, including former US ambassador to Moscow Michael McFaul, sought by the Kremlin for “illegal activities”.

“The president is going to meet with his team and we’ll let you know when we have an announcement on that,” White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders told a news briefing. Sanders added that Trump “said it was an interesting idea ... He wants to work with his team and determine if there is any validity that would be helpful to the process”.
Sure, why not
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazooka87
Sure, why not
I'd be willing to wager my net worth that Trump walked into this meeting with Putin having absolutely no idea what any of this is about and is now just taking Putin at his word that it's something they are "investigating" instead of a series of theft assassinations. Two hours he met alone as an ignoramus abroad.

I will never forgive the stupids for this ****.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 10:12 PM
What the actual **** that is INSANE
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-18-2018 , 10:32 PM
From the Start, Trump Has Muddied a Clear Message: Putin Interfered

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Two weeks before his inauguration, Donald J. Trump was shown highly classified intelligence indicating that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia had personally ordered complex cyberattacks to sway the 2016 American election.

The evidence included texts and emails from Russian military officers and information gleaned from a top-secret source close to Mr. Putin, who had described to the C.I.A. how the Kremlin decided to execute its campaign of hacking and disinformation.

Mr. Trump sounded grudgingly convinced, according to several people who attended the intelligence briefing. But ever since, Mr. Trump has tried to cloud the very clear findings that he received on Jan. 6, 2017, which his own intelligence leaders have unanimously endorsed.
kind of amazing that anyone still supports this clown
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-19-2018 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Aaron Fritschner @Fritschner

House Republicans voting en masse against the most basic action the government could possibly take to stop climate change. Republican vote breakdown is 84-1 so far.
Quote:
Aaron Fritschner @Fritschner

Every House Republican just voted against the motion, which would have restored Election Assistance Commission funding for grants to states for infrastructure upgrades to defend against cyberattacks.
just another day of greatness & winning...
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote
07-20-2018 , 06:58 AM
I have been saying it for awhile now. in 2018 and 2020 russians and republicans are going to actually hack into our voting machines and change votes.
SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) Quote

      
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