All media is a business and made to sell. If Fox News could make billions more pandering to the left they would do so immediately. Same goes for Wash Post vice versa.

If your argument is that mainstream media is lib-biased you're right. If you think whatever news you enjoy is the REAL NEWS and everything else is FAKE NEWS then just lol because whatever news you get is also biased. Like what should the kids watch so their minds aren't ill-equipped?

the only news republitards trust is russian dash cams

Msm is not liberal biased tho. Its the opposite.

Listening to Obama's farewell address what's most interesting is how temperamentally conservative he is. Shocking he's so hated.

l.o.****ing.l. go buy ****ing a clue

The point I was making that all logic regarding why those jobs left (outside of you can pay them less in mexico/china, they got that part, they don't get nobody wants coal anymore or there's already too many new cars on the lot) or who trump really is versus what he said didn't matter in relation to people thinking they were freerolling that vs Hillary's "what the hell are you talking about everything's great?" campaign. Other stuff was either not enough to sway their vote otherwise or it was just a big bonus.

What we need to do is figure out how to utilize their skillset or help them with acquiring the skillset to succeed in today's environment but we don't do that with college which should be the main point especially given how much we're spending on it. There's going to be a lot of "uneducated" (that term for people who didn't go to college needs to die in a fire) people who are much smarter having learned a trade than the people with 6 figs a debt with a worthless degree and they know it and then they see the figs a debt people call them idiots and other names. So instead of trying to find a solution, all we'll get is more $ handed over or free college which is a terrible idea but arguing that is a sidetrack since that won't happen with trump.

Don't agree. Make the $$ incentive high enough and basically anyone can be bought. Maybe a couple outliers here and there but for the most part media is like any other business where the bottom line is basically all that matters. You're not getting "unbiased" news from any major media outlet imo.

Well thats too bad. Ppl that have all the information and yet still support trump are the woat. The policies that trump and the repubs promote are just so obv and self evidently regressive and evil that i have no respect for his supporters who should know better.

For example:

republicans are going to find a million ways to make life terrible for minorities. like taking a widespread peaceful organisation and designating it as a terrorist group so everyone that has some loose connection to it are in danger

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.0ede658ad3d8

it's part of how george w went from 70% support from muslims in 2000 to 4% in 2004. and nobody noticed or cared.

Nobody has all the information imo.

Always good to see a post calling out people for lack of intelligence and at the same time failing to use quotation marks properly.

Enough information then

We probably have enough information to know that Hillary would have been a less harnful president over the next four years.


Her losing may end up leading to actual progress much sooner than her winning.

Think of America as as drug addict who is not going to get healthy until she hits rock bottom. Hillary would be the parents who gives her addicto child a place to stay and pays her bills enabling her to continue to be and drug addict.

Trump is the guy paying her $40 to get pissed on so that she can get that next high and hopefully she looks in the mirror and says OK this is it, no more.

"the worse, the better" never works. it just gets worse.

No, obviously a trump presidency is pretry close to a worst possible outcome. Fear of future trump presidency is not at all a good reason not to pursue progressive ideals. But it is nonetheless the case that old, crusty, outdated social norms and institutions are often in place for a reason, and sometimes those reasons aren't obvious to those who want to destroy them. If you'd made some comment even just 2 or 3 years ago complaining about the lack of "decency" or couth shown by someone, even someone running for political office, any self respecting progressive liberal would have replied "****ing good. **** decency. Decency is used to keep people in line and keep them in their place. It's used to demonize minority views and prevent progress." And they'd have been right! Ask them now and for some at least its pearl clutching about trump. "When I said I wanted things to change I never considered the possibility that things could change for the worse!" Those who were all about executive orders for the last 8 years are gonna have a huge ****ing bill to pay, with interest, over the next 4, for example.

Except of course it's all of us who will be paying it.

Liberalism is creative destruction. Conservativism is the precautionary principle. The precautionary principle is stupid, but it ain't always wrong.

in my most optimistic moments i find woody's hope semi-plausible but i just think it underestimates the amount of damage that will be done in trump administration - plus conservative SC pick and probably another one or two since RGB and breyer are on their last legs. next time democrats have the senate and an opening is up they need to pick a goddamn 40 year old or two

Cool. There were more important things on the ballot than liberal economics vs conservative economics. Trump isnt a conservative anyway.

All it means is the next terrible GOP nominee looks more palatable by comparison.

We had 8 years of W and all it led to was 8 years of a moderate who people believed was a raging socialist radical because of the overall trend in the country. You can't tell me we were better off somehow than if Gore had just won. And this is way worse than that, nobody is going to tie this to the final straw in our addiction to whatever your root cause theory is (I'm not even sure I know, money in politics?).

To be fair, it's not really my hope as much as its just my opinion of what is going to happen. Just seems inevitable that as more old people die and more young people get older that progressive ideas will become the norm. Trump is more a product of the environment than the cause of it. So while he's a ******ed pathetic scumbag etc; people blaming him are missing the point miserably and unlikely to learn from this

On the bright side having a "villain" should galvanize the uninvolved and still very untapped potential progressive pool of voters. There's no reason why it can't happen very soon.

The only problem for progressives is that this kind of relies on the competence of the political party that represents them and there's not much to be optimistic about in that regard.

....

right now progressive ideas are the norm. hillary got 3m more votes than trump. and thats not counting all of the disenfranchised votes and the fraudulently disallowed votes.

the problem is that the republicans are just way better at the game and with this much control they are going to institute laws and procedures that continue to keep control. look at what happened in north carolina.

democracy is pretty much over. violence will proly be the only way to repair it.

I've thought violence was coming for a while.

I've also figured we've been overdue for some violence.

Still don't think it needs to come to that. I don't really see how they gerrymander the presidency unless you mean like all of a sudden Alabama gets as many electoral votes as NY or something. I guess they could pretty easily change the system around to benefit themselves. At some point they just get so massively outnumbered that it doesn't matter though. Especially if things get as bad as you all seem to think.

I just hope we don't over compensate and try to become lolgermany.