SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics) - Page 1560 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

I think the reasoning is something like voting citizens of the electorate don't want them here (at least in some states) and they have no political right to be here, and if we believe in democracy, the nation state, voting rights, and the will of the people then maybe we should follow through.

I agree it's a bit callous.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...reamers-242343

"The same holds true for Trump’s electoral base. Two-thirds of self-identified Trump voters think the Dreamers should stay; only 26 percent think they should be deported.

Among voters who say they strongly approve of Trump’s job performance as president, 60 percent think these immigrants should be allowed to stay, compared with only 33 percent who think they should be deported."

Hell, only 1/3rd of people who strongly approve of Donald Trump want these people deported. Doesn't seem like the majority of overall people would want it. I know these polls can be dicey, but it's overwhelmingly against ending DACA.

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09-06-2017 , 09:46 AM

#38977

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,684

True, and that might hold true over states as well, though I think there is at least some logic in allowing people in states with more/most illegal immigrants to have a say on it more than random people in cities and states that don't.

If California wanted people to stay but Texas didn't that seems "fine"

The other argument touted the most I imagine would be Obama never had the right to "pass" DACA in the first place. Though it's pretty accepted now that the president and SCOTUS just sort of make policy since Congress can't get anything done.

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09-06-2017 , 09:50 AM

#38978

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazooka87

Is anybody arguing for both of these? I can't tell if you're putting KANTBOT IN OVERDRIVE's thought as a legitimate question or as a troll

No the poor strawman took a folding chair to the forehead though

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09-06-2017 , 10:35 AM

#38979

Heroball

temp-banned

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 9,402

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Immigration law is well-settled as within the federal government's purview. Hoya or someone else better versed in Constitutional law could make the point better, but I don't think it would be fine (as in, it would likely be unconstitutional) to allow states to individually determine broad immigration policy.

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09-06-2017 , 10:56 AM

#38980

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

good thing "leftists" arent arguing for that.

mostly we think it is disgustingly evil to deport ppl who are contributing members of society and did nothing wrong.

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09-06-2017 , 10:58 AM

#38981

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,684

Don't think we are talking strictly matter of law at this point.

As a matter of law they are obviously here illegally. States allowing them to stay seems like it could work. Giving out citizenship is pretty clearly a federal task.

It is interesting when it seems "ok" for states or cities to ignore the federal government. On weed and immigration it's fine, on abortion it's not. I'm sure there are other examples.

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09-06-2017 , 11:01 AM

#38982

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Ha, that's funny, someone else I know said basically the same.

Maybe they aren't, I just know a few in here make the GDP argument which I think is basically irrelevant to the discussion. True leftists don't believe in borders or immigration policy I think, but I'm guessing most in this thread do to varying degrees.

cmon man. its not that hard. the GDP argument is in response to the conservatives who try to argue that these ppl are a drain on our country's weath and resources.

they clearly arent. they arent even eligible for any sort of social benefits. not even student aid.

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09-06-2017 , 11:05 AM

#38983

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

good thing "leftists" arent arguing for that.

mostly we think it is disgustingly evil to deport ppl who are contributing members of society and did nothing wrong.

Yeah the left is yelling at liberals for making weird second order defenses of DACA instead of just saying it's morally the right thing to do, economics are irrelevant. That the economics favor our side is trivia. Even if every DACA person was living in the parent's basement playing Xbox all day they shouldn't be deported.

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09-06-2017 , 11:05 AM

#38984

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,684

Stupid arguments shouldn't be used to refute stupid opinions.

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09-06-2017 , 11:06 AM

#38985

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

there has been no referendum on how the electorate feels about keeping DACA recipients in the country.

and ofc you think its callous. thats why you agree with it.

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09-06-2017 , 11:07 AM

#38986

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,684

I don't think I said I agree with it. You can quote me if I'm wrong.

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09-06-2017 , 11:09 AM

#38987

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Stupid arguments shouldn't be used to refute stupid opinions.

lol dude. just bc the facts dont support your opinions doesnt make them stupid.

the whole point is that there is absolutely no reason to kick the dreamers out other than inflicting pain on a subset of ppl. that is the only reason.

I would respect you more if you would actually man up and embrace this like disko does.

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09-06-2017 , 11:09 AM

#38988

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,684

Also the discussion was reasonable, civil and fruitful until Victor came in and started trolling and throwing insults.

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09-06-2017 , 11:10 AM

#38989

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

I don't think I said I agree with it. You can quote me if I'm wrong.

posts gotchas at liberals who want to keep DACAs.

post straight up lies about how the public feels about DACAs to support removing them.

but certain doesnt agree with kicking out DACAs amirite?

I mean, jfc you are becoming more of a coward with every post.

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09-06-2017 , 11:11 AM

#38990

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

The gdp argument is dumb. If you want to use dumb arguments to trick people into believing what you believe that is your perogitive.

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09-06-2017 , 11:12 AM

#38991

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

Toxic masculinity much?

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09-06-2017 , 11:13 AM

#38992

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Also the discussion was reasonable, civil and fruitful until Victor came in and started trolling and throwing insults.

ya disko started the whole discussion by laughing about how made trump had made everyone.

you followed it up with a blatant strawman. and then lied about the support of the general public on the issue.

but I am the one ruining things by calling out your absolute bullsht. sorry bruh. you gotta own it.

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09-06-2017 , 11:13 AM

#38993

El Rata

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 31,720

only thing more predictable than trump doing some wild racist **** is pwnsall/losing all/disko going to bat to defend it

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09-06-2017 , 11:14 AM

#38994

MonsterJMcgee

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,001

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

The gdp argument is dumb. If you want to use dumb arguments to trick people into believing what you believe that is your perogitive.

dog you went from "nobody wants these people here!" to "it is true most want them here but let the states decide!"

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09-06-2017 , 11:16 AM

#38995

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

The gdp argument is dumb. If you want to use dumb arguments to trick people into believing what you believe that is your perogitive.

librul: it is cruel to send these ppl to a country they have never lived in and most have no ties to and cant even speak the language.

conservate: but they are a drain on our countries precious resources and something something national debt.

librul: well actually they are upstanding citizens who take in no social welfare and most have jobs paying taxes and are just entering prime earning age.

pwnsall: The gdp argument is dumb. If you want to use dumb arguments to trick people into believing what you believe that is your perogitive.

ok bruh. good talk.

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09-06-2017 , 11:17 AM

#38996

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Not racist! Just, as usual, #1 with racists

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09-06-2017 , 11:18 AM

#38997

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,684

So is all immigration policy evil or just deporting DACA people? How would you decide who gets in/gets to stay and who doesn't?

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09-06-2017 , 11:26 AM

#38998

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

So is all immigration policy evil or just deporting DACA people? How would you decide who gets in/gets to stay and who doesn't?

hey lets move on to the next fallacy

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09-06-2017 , 11:28 AM

#38999

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,684

i'm not arguing points, i think that may be your problem

i'm just discussing ideas

sorry i didn't realize you were trying to win. you win, you're right

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09-06-2017 , 11:29 AM

#39000

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

I can see some kind of grand bargain where the Dreamers get to stay but no more Dreamers get to DREAM anywhere other than their country of origin and we get money for a wall that never gets built.

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