Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-26-2010, 02:34 PM   #2151
trippy
old hand
 
trippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,355
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEbenhoe View Post
It just seems Pacquiao needs this fight way more than Mayweather does in terms of PPV #s. It appears Mayweather can do 1M+ against any reasonable opponent, and it doesn't look like thats the case for Pacquiao.

The numbers were just what I was able to find with a quick search, so not sure about any inaccuracies.
IMO, both can do 1 million(or very close to it) with a reasonable opponent with some sort of fan base. Clottey has a total of 10 fans in the world and Pac was still able to get 700K buys. I think Pac would have definitely done at least 1 million had he faced Mosely. Mayweather might have slightly more drawing power but not by much.

I looked up the PPV numbers. Floyd/Hatton had 850,000 buys. And it looks like you were right about Pac/De La Hoya. It was 1.25 million. Which is surprising, I thought it only had around 800K.
trippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 02:41 PM   #2152
$kill Game
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,117
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

1. Floyd won't fight unless he's making big big money. That's the reason he "retired". Right now, there is nobody he could fight that the public would buy besides pacquiao. Sergio Martinez/Paul Williams aren't popular enough. Nobody will buy Floyd fighting another 140 pounder at 147. However, Floyd doesn't NEED to fight any time soon...He's willing to wait it out for business reasons and to protect his 0 and big money/big fight reputation. Floyd has leverage on Pacquiao because he's in no rush to get the fight done.

2. Pacquiao NEEDS to fight for political aspirations, legacy, and he listens to whatever people tell him to do 100% (aka he's a massive tool...not that it's a bad thing for boxing fans). The pubilc would buy a pacquiao fight vs Martinez, Paul Williams, and Timothy Bradley/Amir Khan (if one of these guys gets another big win). He has more 'options' but it doesn't give him leverage because Floyd is in no rush to fight.
$kill Game is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 02:55 PM   #2153
trippy
old hand
 
trippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,355
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

If Floyd doesn't fight Manny in November, then Manny is going to fight Margarito (assuming he wins his next fight). Pac probably only going to fight 3 more times, maximum. So they better fight soon.
trippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 03:12 PM   #2154
$kill Game
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,117
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

The public won't buy a margarito fight after margarito got starched by Mosley and Mosley got dominated by Mayweawther. Hope it doesn't happen.
$kill Game is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 03:32 PM   #2155
labamba
grinder
 
labamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: con college
Posts: 668
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Pacquiao NEEDS to fight for political aspirations, legacy, and he listens to whatever people tell him to do 100% (aka he's a massive tool...not that it's a bad thing for boxing fans). The pubilc would buy a pacquiao fight vs Martinez, Paul Williams, and Timothy Bradley/Amir Khan (if one of these guys gets another big win). He has more 'options' but it doesn't give him leverage because Floyd is in no rush to fight.
You mention mostly completely unrealistic names for Manny to fight.

Manny sure as hell wont fight Martinez or Williams since he rejected a fight vs Yuri Foreman with the reason "he is too big".

A fight vs Amir Khan is highly highly unlikely (but it would be big, especially in the UK). Roach said he dont see them ever fighting.

Tim Bradley. Yes. A good fight and a decent name. But he does not have more of a name than Andre Berto. It would probably sell sub 1 million.

Margarito? Probably the "realistic fight"(not counting on a khan showdown) that would generate most money.
With that said its a ****ing joke fight for Bob Arum to milk more money off of.

Meanwhile, i think Floyd could sell very well vs Martinez. Him manhandling Kelly Pavlik on HBO and being the undisputed middleweight champ would be highly marketable.
Not to mention Floyds personality and "24/7 heel acting" will probably amass interest no matter who his opponent is.
-
With that said. Pacquiao vs Floyd is obviously the biggest fight in boxing today and likely of all time.
labamba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 06:16 PM   #2156
trippy
old hand
 
trippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,355
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Even if Floyd gets 60/40 to fight Martinez, he won't make as much money than fighting Pac at 50-50.

BTW, does anyone know what the split was vs. Mosely?
trippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 06:26 PM   #2157
$kill Game
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,117
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Floyd could get 80%+ vs martinez, but there's no money, relatively speaking, in that fight right now, and it's way too big of a risk to his 0 for floyd to take. And I'm not a Floyd hater. I'm a realist. His undefeated record is a huge part of his marketability.
$kill Game is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 06:39 PM   #2158
pokeriseasy
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,621
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trippy View Post
Even if Floyd gets 60/40 to fight Martinez, he won't make as much money than fighting Pac at 50-50.

BTW, does anyone know what the split was vs. Mosely?
I'm pretty sure Mosley got a flat 5 mil, while Mayweather got PPV buy % and ended up getting around 25 mil.
pokeriseasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 06:39 PM   #2159
labamba
grinder
 
labamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: con college
Posts: 668
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trippy View Post
Even if Floyd gets 60/40 to fight Martinez, he won't make as much money than fighting Pac at 50-50.

BTW, does anyone know what the split was vs. Mosely?
Why does it matter how much money he can make vs pac at 50/50? He clearly deserves more than 50% and he is not out of line asking for it.
labamba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 06:41 PM   #2160
labamba
grinder
 
labamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: con college
Posts: 668
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by $kill Game View Post
Floyd could get 80%+ vs martinez, but there's no money, relatively speaking, in that fight right now, and it's way too big of a risk to his 0 for floyd to take. And I'm not a Floyd hater. I'm a realist. His undefeated record is a huge part of his marketability.
If you had to guess, how many buys would you estimate for this fight?
labamba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 06:53 PM   #2161
$kill Game
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,117
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Less than 1 million. Even though it's the best fight (skill/entertainment wise) that can be made besides pacquiao, the public won't recognize this cuz Sergio is unknown, isn't undefeated, isn't a knockout artist, and isn't mexican or american.

But it's irrelevant cuz that fight is not going to happen. However, if Sergio got the W vs williams and cintron, it would have potential. But it is what it is.
$kill Game is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 06:59 PM   #2162
trippy
old hand
 
trippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,355
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by labamba View Post
Why does it matter how much money he can make vs pac at 50/50? He clearly deserves more than 50% and he is not out of line asking for it.
Because "Money" always says it's about the money. If he can make more money fighting Pac at 50-50 than he can with any other opponent at 60-40 then why would he not fight Pac?
trippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 07:11 PM   #2163
labamba
grinder
 
labamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: con college
Posts: 668
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trippy View Post
Because "Money" always says it's about the money. If he can make more money fighting Pac at 50-50 than he can with any other opponent at 60-40 then why would he not fight Pac?
Maybe you never realized, but they are both ego-maniacs.

If floyd feel he deserves x amount of % he will fight to get that.
labamba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 07:12 PM   #2164
trippy
old hand
 
trippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,355
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by labamba View Post
If you had to guess, how many buys would you estimate for this fight?
I would guess 700-800K. It's an interesting fight, but like Skill Game said, he is unknown and doesn't knock people out. I also think a lot of people will refuse to buy it simply because he isn't facing Pacquiao (same goes for Pac if he faces Margarito).

Depending on how Margarito looks in his next fight, I think Pac-Margo would get just as much or more PPV buys than Mayweather-Martinez. Margarito has the bigger fan base and still drew a crowd in his last fight.
trippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 07:18 PM   #2165
labamba
grinder
 
labamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: con college
Posts: 668
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Yeah Margarito vs Pac will easily outsell Martinez vs Floyd (no justice in boxing).

Reason: Margarito = Mexican.
labamba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 07:21 PM   #2166
pokeriseasy
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,621
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Why are people talking Mayweather/Martinez? Mayweather/Williams makes much more sense. Martinez is fighting at 160, Williams is fighting at 154, and Williams beat Martinez.
pokeriseasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 07:26 PM   #2167
labamba
grinder
 
labamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: con college
Posts: 668
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeriseasy View Post
Why are people talking Mayweather/Martinez? Mayweather/Williams makes much more sense. Martinez is fighting at 160, Williams is fighting at 154, and Williams beat Martinez.
1. Martinez is a 154lbs fighter that went up to 160 for a good fight. Just like Williams did.

2. Williams vs Floyd is close to impossible to happen.

Why? Al Haymon.

3. Williams beat Martinez in a fight where alot of people felt Martinez actually won. Kinda like JMM vs Pac.
Since then he went on to take become the lineal champ at 160.
labamba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 07:39 PM   #2168
labamba
grinder
 
labamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: con college
Posts: 668
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

* In regards to the money split discussion.

x-posting from another boxingforum (i didnt write the post)

Quote:
Floyd Mayweather PPV's:


1.) Mayweather vs Gatti - 365,000 buys = $16.5 million revenue
2.) Mayweather vs Judah - 375,000 buys = $16.8 million revenue
3.) Mayweather vs Baldomir - 325,000 buys = $16.3 million revenue
4.) Mayweather vs De La Hoya - 2.4 million buys = $136.6 million revenue
5.) Mayweather vs Hatton - 920,000 buys = $50 million revenue
6.) Mayweather vs Marquez - 1 million buys = $52 million revenue
7.) Mayweather vs Mosley - 1.4 million buys = $78.3 million revenue

Total PPV Fights: 7
Total PPV Buys: 6.8 million buys
Total PPV Revenue: $366.5 million revenue
Average PPV per fight: 970,000 buys
Average Revenue per fight: $52.3 million revenue


Manny Pacquiao PPV's:

Note: Pacquiao's fight with Oscar Larios in Phillipines was PPV but the data isn't available for it, so It isn't included in this as there are no ppv buys available for it.

1.) Pacquiao vs Morales I - 350,000 buys = $15.7 million revenue
2.) Pacquiao vs Morales II - 360,000 buys = $16.2 million revenue
3.) Pacquiao vs Morales III - 350,000 buys = $17.5 million revenue
4.) Pacquiao vs Solis - 200,000 buys = $6 million revenue
5.) Pacquiao vs Barrera II - 350,000 buys = $17.4 million revenue
6.) Pacquiao vs Marquez II - 400,000 buys = $20.2 million revenue
7.) Pacquiao vs Diaz - 250,000 buys = $11 million revenue
8.) Pacquiao vs De La Hoya - 1.25 million buys = $70 million revenue
9.) Pacquiao vs Hatton - 850,000 buys = $45 million revenue
10.) Pacquiao vs Cotto - 1.25 million buys = $70 million revenue
11.) Pacquiao vs Clottey - 700,000 buys = $35.3 million revenue

Total PPV Fights: 11
Total PPV Buys: 6.3 million buys
Total PPV Revenue: $324.3 million revenue
Average PPV per fight: 570,000 buys
Average Revenue per fight: $29.4 million revenue


Mayweather's top three PPV's:

1.) Mayweather vs De La Hoya - 2.4 million buys = $136.6 million revenue
2.) Mayweather vs Mosley - 1.4 million buys = $78.3 million revenue
3.) Mayweather vs Marquez - 1 million buys = $52 million revenue


Pacquiao's top three PPV's:

1.) Pacquiao vs De La Hoya - 1.25 million buys = $70 million revenue
2.) Pacquiao vs Cotto - 1.25 million buys = $70 million revenue
3.) Pacquiao vs Hatton - 850,000 buys = $45 million revenue


Interesting Comparisons:


Mayweather vs Baldomir - 325,000 buys = $16.3 million revenue
Pacquiao vs Diaz - 250,000 buys = $11 million revenue

Mayweather vs De La Hoya - 2.4 million buys = $136.6 million revenue
Pacquiao vs De La Hoya - 1.25 million buys = $70 million revenue

Mayweather vs Hatton - 920,000 buys = $50 million revenue
Pacquiao vs Hatton - 850,000 buys = $45 million revenue

Mayweather vs Gatti - 365,000 buys = $16.5 million revenue
Pacquiao vs Morales I - 350,000 buys = $15.7 million revenue

Mayweather vs Marquez - 1 million buys = $52 million revenue
Pacquiao vs Marquez II - 400,000 buys = $20.2 million revenue

Mayweather vs Mosley - 1.4 million buys = $78.3 million revenue
Pacquiao vs Cotto - 1.25 million buys = $70 million revenue
If you want sources just google. Should be easy to prove these numbers wrong if they actually are.
labamba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 08:55 PM   #2169
Geddy Lee
Good Ol' Canadian Boy
 
Geddy Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Obi-Sean, you're our only hope
Posts: 25,361
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeriseasy View Post
Come on you can't say the outcome was obvious when he fought Mosley. Mosley was coming off a fight where he destroyed Margarito who was considered the best WW at the time. The power Mosley brings and his speed made the fight very interesting on paper, and for 2 rounds Mosley showed it, winning the 1st round and dominating the 2nd round and buckling Floyd's legs twice with big right hands. It's not like Mayweather fought Mosley after he looked terrible, he was considered top 3 or 4 P4P going into that fight. Just because Mayweather won easily you can't just dismiss Mosley as a real threat.
I don't wish to derail this thread anymore with the Mosley talk, but this was in reply to my original post, so let's get a couple things straight. One, there was over 15 months in between the Margarito and Mayweather fights. For a 38-year old, that is an eternity. So honestly, the "look at his last fight" argument holds very little water. Remember, before the Margarito win, he looked very sloppy against Ricardo Mayorga and lost to Cotto at MSG.

Two, he was the #3 P4P heading into the fight because the top-end talent in boxing today is at an all-time low. Right now, The Ring has JMM at #3 and Nonito Donaire at #4 in the P4P rankings. Mosley is still at #5, and he's clearly done. I mean, come on, that's embarrassing. So once again, that holds about zero water. I think there's a ton of top class talent coming up through the ranks right now - Devon Alexander, Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz and Saul Alvarez are all under 25 years of age, what sick potential for years ahead - but as boxing stands right now, the depth of the elite is nothing to boast about.
Geddy Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 08:58 PM   #2170
Geddy Lee
Good Ol' Canadian Boy
 
Geddy Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Obi-Sean, you're our only hope
Posts: 25,361
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trippy View Post
As I feared, Mayweather now wants more than a 50-50 split. I actually think they will reach a compromise on the whole blood testing stuff, but this fight will never happen unless it's a 50-50 split.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=28096
Smart play by Mayweather's camp, because the most obvious progression as far as I can see would be telling Pac's camp "give us a 55-45 split and we'll set the blood testing cutoff at 14 days again." That's something I'd have to consider if I'm a Pacquiao advisor...if you really want the fight to happen.
Geddy Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 09:49 PM   #2171
pokeriseasy
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,621
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by labamba View Post

2. Williams vs Floyd is close to impossible to happen.

Why? Al Haymon.

.
I don't get why Haymon wouldn't want this fight, isn't he an advisor to both guys meaning he'd make a ton of money off of this fight? Also Williams called out both Pacquiao and Mayweather after that bizzare fight with Cintron.
pokeriseasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2010, 01:15 AM   #2172
DannyOcean_
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DannyOcean_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Bellagio vault
Posts: 28,341
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I actually do think Mayweather has a right to a 55/45 or maybe even 60/40 at this point.

Quote:
So somehow Judah losing to Baldomir and Mayweather fighting him 3 months later made Judah a worse fighter than if he had won as he should've?
Does this really need to be explained to you? Floyd only fought him once he lost. Of course Judah is a weaker opponent after a poor performance. How can that need an explanation?

Quote:
The thing that bothers me is how everyone amps up what Pacquiao has done while tearing down with Mayweather has done. The De La Hoya fights are a big example, Mayweather gets no credit for fighting at a weight class he has never fought at, while nobody takes into account that De La Hoya had to kill himself to make weight for his fight with Pacquiao.
Floyd was a huge favorite going into the ODLH fight and Manny was an underdog. Manny was challenging himself and Floyd was not. You act like it's some crime Manny committed to get Oscar down to 145. There's a four weight class difference between the two fighters for ****'s sake, of course he wanted Oscar to meet him halfway! Going into that fight, the common knowledge was that Oscar was a natural 154 fighter and Manny was a natural 130 pound fighter. They were thought of as being FOUR WEIGHT CLASSES APART prior to that fight. It's not some injustice that Oscar was asked to come down a little and agreed to do so. This as opposed to Floyd's heroic jump of one weight class to fight someone who was not the best at that weight and who he was greatly favored over for the biggest money fight in boxing history. Real challenge he took there, he must want to prove himself.
DannyOcean_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2010, 01:53 AM   #2173
pokeriseasy
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,621
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

What does it matter how big of a favorite he was? Was Tyson not a huge favorite over Douglas, what about Margarito over Mosley, how about Judah over Baldomir? Just because your fighting somebody you're a favorite over doesn't mean you really have that big of an edge in the fight.

I really can't believe you are acting like Oscar having to cut so much weight doesn't take away anything from Pacquiao dominating him. Even when he stepped into the ring for the fight he was probaly lighter than he had been in the last 10 years. Mayweather fought De La Hoya at 100% given his age, Pac fought an even older De La Hoya who was at best 50% in that fight. You're acting like you don't know the affects excessive weight cutting can have on a fighter's performance. What if Mayweather said he'd fight Pavlik but only at 157 pounds, and Mayweather destroyed a very sluggish Pavlik, would it be impressive?

Judah did not all of a sudden become a worse fighter when he lost to Baldomir odds are he just didn't take him seriously and paid for it. Judah already had a loss on his record before Baldomir, and it was less than 2 years before he loss to Baldomir. I don't get the whole "he waited to Judah lost" angle, he had just been beaten by Spinks.
pokeriseasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2010, 06:39 AM   #2174
labamba
grinder
 
labamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: con college
Posts: 668
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeriseasy View Post
I don't get why Haymon wouldn't want this fight, isn't he an advisor to both guys meaning he'd make a ton of money off of this fight? Also Williams called out both Pacquiao and Mayweather after that bizzare fight with Cintron.
I dont know if Haymon get a set % of purse or not or if he is paid in another way.
It is quite clear however that he dont want Berto, Williams and Floyd fighting.

Why? Because he dont want either guy losing. Especially not Floyd.
labamba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2010, 06:42 AM   #2175
labamba
grinder
 
labamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: con college
Posts: 668
Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
Smart play by Mayweather's camp, because the most obvious progression as far as I can see would be telling Pac's camp "give us a 55-45 split and we'll set the blood testing cutoff at 14 days again." That's something I'd have to consider if I'm a Pacquiao advisor...if you really want the fight to happen.
They could rightfully tell them to get a 55/45 split regardless.
Floyd is the proven bigger draw.

Problem is i dont see Pacquiao accepting this. He wouldnt accept 49.999999% if it meant he got less than Floyd.
labamba is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive