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Old 05-25-2010, 12:12 PM   #2126
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by pokeriseasy View Post
About Mayweather/Hatton, Mayweather's previous fight before fighting Hatton was at 154 against De La Hoya, was Mayweather really supposed to go from fighting at 154 for 1 fight all the way down to 140 for his next fight? Be realistic, he and Hatton met in the middle, 1 moved down a weight class the other moved up. Also nobody likes to mention that Hatton was actually the WBA Welterweight champ when he fought Mayweather because he beat Luis Collazo for that belt about 18 months before he fought Mayweather.
did you watch the hatton v collazo, and can you remember how bad hatton was that night?

he was really lucky to get the decision in his favor (not just my opinion).

i already said ITT that i met Hatton's ex-coach straight after the fight and i asked him why did they take the fight on at WW, his answer was that he did not agree with it because RH was **** at WW but Hatton made the decision.

FWIW Hatton was walking around at HW (he binge drinks and eats all the crap he can gets his hands on) before his fight with PBF, whereas PBF was walking around at somewhere between 147 and 154.
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:23 PM   #2127
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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did you watch the hatton v collazo, and can you remember how bad hatton was that night?

he was really lucky to get the decision in his favor (not just my opinion).

i already said ITT that i met Hatton's ex-coach straight after the fight and i asked him why did they take the fight on at WW, his answer was that he did not agree with it because RH was **** at WW but Hatton made the decision.

FWIW Hatton was walking around at HW (he binge drinks and eats all the crap he can gets his hands on) before his fight with PBF, whereas PBF was walking around at somewhere between 147 and 154.
This is actual funny, and kind've refreshing that even professional athletes have ****ty diets. As far as how it relates to his fight with Mayweather it isn't Mayweather's fault Hatton has bad eating habits. It seems like you are saying Mayweather should fight out of his comfort zone just to make other fighters comfortable. If his best weight class is 147 and that's where he feels the most comfortable why should he move down to fight somebody who benefits far more from fighting Mayweather than Mayweather benefits from fighting them. I've said it before it's much easier to fight at a higher weight class then it is to cut extra weight. Weight cutting is extremely draining, just look at De La Hoya vs. Pacquiao. That's how a fighter looks when he has to cut more weight then he's used to.
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:26 PM   #2128
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Mayweather picks his opponents well and whenever he is faced with anything resembling a threat to him he gets everything in the fight stacked in his favour, like getting De la Hoya to drain himself or getting Hatton out of his comfort zone at light-welter or beating up the little guy that had only fought at light-weight until PBF got him at 147.

what is going to be the excuse when he destroys pac man ??

just curious.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:17 PM   #2129
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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what is going to be the excuse when he destroys pac man ??

just curious.
My reason would be that PBF was the better fighter and in the fight between the 2 greatest WWs currently, Floyd deserved the win (assuming it's not a close split or odd TKO or something).

PBF is great and he's prob a slight favorite over Pac, but that's the point. PBF has notoriously hand-picked his fights to give him the greatest advantage, now here's a fighter with what is likely the best chance to beat him in his career and he's doing everything possible to duck him.

Test yourself if you want to be the GOAT.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:50 PM   #2130
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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No you are just completely wrong. Nobody thought Marquez had any chance, nobody thought De La Hoya or Baldomir had any chance. Zab Judah was an interesting opponent but some of the shine came off of him after he lost to Baldomir, maybe some people thought Hatton had a chance but most people knew better. You can't sit here and say when you heard Mayweather was fighting Maraquez, De La Hoya and Baldomir you thought there was a decent chance they could win, and just as a good of a chance as Mosley had. That would just be insane.
Exactly how much of a chance more did Mosley have than Bald or DLH? For enough money I'd bother to prove you wrong so I can make your money, my money.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:54 PM   #2131
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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what is going to be the excuse when he destroys pac man ??

just curious.
if i was more articulate i would answer this, but as im not see post 2129.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:01 PM   #2132
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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My reason would be that PBF was the better fighter and in the fight between the 2 greatest WWs currently, Floyd deserved the win (assuming it's not a close split or odd TKO or something).

PBF is great and he's prob a slight favorite over Pac, but that's the point. PBF has notoriously hand-picked his fights to give him the greatest advantage, now here's a fighter with what is likely the best chance to beat him in his career and he's doing everything possible to duck him.

Test yourself if you want to be the GOAT.
Not to nitpick but I would say Paul Williams has the best chance to beat him.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:15 PM   #2133
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

floyd got these haters mad
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:23 PM   #2134
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I didnt give Mosley a prayer against Floyd and couldnt understand why people thought he had a chance of beating him. Sure he rattled him early (anyone can get lucky with a punch or two but its not like Floyd was ever going to get KO'd) but my god he ended up getting hammered.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:19 PM   #2135
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I'm of the opinion that we haven't seen the best of Floyd in the ring. Nobody has truly tested him besides JLC 1 when he had a broken hand. I strongly believe Pacquiao's style will bring the best out of him.

If Pacquiao fights like he's fought his whole career, Floyd's accurate counter shots will rule the day and Pacquiao will become gun shy (See marquez fights).
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:28 PM   #2136
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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floyd got these haters mad
hope you are not including me in the haters.

i hope they can do the fight without any controversy and the best man wins (not by much tho as a 2nd and 3rd fight will make good telly).
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:58 PM   #2137
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Nice to know everyone who dislike's floyd's antics is just a hater.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:01 PM   #2138
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Pokeriseasy,

Floyd hasn't tested himself in a long, long time. Mosley does not count as 'testing himself', he was a huge favorite in that fight. Just because Mosley had a tiny sliver of chance to win instead of zero zilch nada sliver (which Marquez, Hatton, etc had) does not mean Mayweather heroically took a tough fight. Taking a tough fight and testing yourself would have meant Paul Williams or Manny.

The 'hater' attitude is stupid. I think Floyd would be a small favorite in this fight, but it's stupid after this most recent episode to believe anything but that Floyd wants nothing to do with challenges. He hasn't challenged himself for years. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it's probably ducking the best fighters.
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:07 PM   #2139
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Pokeriseasy is just trolling guys and intentionally playing Devil's Advocate. No rational person believes that Floyd is not ducking Manny here.

The only way to be the best is to beat the best. Everybody Floyd fought was either a huge underdog (Baldomir, Hatton), way past their prime (Mosley, DLH) or both (JMM). Only wishful thinkers and delusional people thought that his opponents ever had a chance to beat him.
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:48 PM   #2140
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Pokeriseasy is just trolling guys and intentionally playing Devil's Advocate. No rational person believes that Floyd is not ducking Manny here.

The only way to be the best is to beat the best. Everybody Floyd fought was either a huge underdog (Baldomir, Hatton), way past their prime (Mosley, DLH) or both (JMM). Only wishful thinkers and delusional people thought that his opponents ever had a chance to beat him.
Or he fought prime Corrales, Judah, Castillo. It seems like Floyd was ducking in the past because of how good he was. I agree he is ducking some people now, but he fought the best of his weight classes in the past.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:41 PM   #2141
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

So De La Hoya doesn't count as a good win for Mayweather, when Mayweather stepped up in weight to fight him, but it counts as a good win for Pacquiao when De La Hoya fought at not only a weight class he hadn't fought at in over 7 years but then had to cut an extra 2 pounds? Wasn't Pacquiao also a huge favorite over Hatton, why is it a good win for Pacquiao and not Mayweather? As Em2 said what about the wins against Corrales (which was actually a demolition) Judah and the 2 wins over Castillo? The fight against Baldomir was a title fight after Baldomir had beaten Judah.

I don't understand how Pacquiao gets credit for beating the same guys that Mayweather beat and AFTER Mayweather beat them.
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:06 AM   #2142
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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So De La Hoya doesn't count as a good win for Mayweather, when Mayweather stepped up in weight to fight him, but it counts as a good win for Pacquiao when De La Hoya fought at not only a weight class he hadn't fought at in over 7 years but then had to cut an extra 2 pounds? Wasn't Pacquiao also a huge favorite over Hatton, why is it a good win for Pacquiao and not Mayweather? As Em2 said what about the wins against Corrales (which was actually a demolition) Judah and the 2 wins over Castillo? The fight against Baldomir was a title fight after Baldomir had beaten Judah.

I don't understand how Pacquiao gets credit for beating the same guys that Mayweather beat and AFTER Mayweather beat them.
#1 - Pacquiao destroyed both of those fighters far worse than Floyd did. Manny killed Hatton immediately whereas Floyd took 8 or 9 rounds. Manny made Oscar quit whereas ODLH lost a split decision to Floyd.

#2 - Manny jumped 2 divisions above anywhere he'd ever fought to fight ODLH. He was practically jumping 3 divisions because he was a 130 pound fighter who had one fight at 135 ever before going straight to WW. Floyd only jumped 1 division. Manny also fought Hatton at his best weight, 140, where Hatton was undefeated. Manny went up from his natural weight to fight Hatton at Hatton's best weight rather than giving Hatton a big payday to fight at his weight like Floyd did.

#3 - IIRC, Pac was not a huge favorite over Hatton, not nearly as much as Floyd was. He definitely wasn't a huge fave over OLDH, and may have even been an underdog according to some. This is just memory though, could be wrong.
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:15 AM   #2143
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Or he fought prime Corrales, Judah, Castillo. It seems like Floyd was ducking in the past because of how good he was. I agree he is ducking some people now, but he fought the best of his weight classes in the past.
Yes, it was so heroic of Floyd to fight Judah immediately after Judah finally lost to Baldomir.

As for Corrales and Castillo, JFC dude. Those fights were 8 and 9 years ago when he was a virtual nobody. He hasn't challenged himself at all since then. You cannot bring those fights up to prove how much he wants to challenge himself, that's just asinine. We're talking about his behavior for the last few years, not 2001-2.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:27 PM   #2144
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

So somehow Judah losing to Baldomir and Mayweather fighting him 3 months later made Judah a worse fighter than if he had won as he should've?

Yes Manny jumped divisions to fight De La Hoya but you're ignoring the fact that De La Hoya fought at a weight class he hadn't fought at in over 7 years and had to cut 2 extra pounds. What's more taxing on the body moving up in weight or cutting a bunch of extra weight you aren't used to cutting?

Manny didn't move up in weight to fight Hatton, I know the point you are trying to make but it's a bad one, who cares if it's up from his natural weight his previous fight before that was at a higher weight class and he hasn't fought at 140 since that fight.

Also who cares how Manny beat those 2 and how Mayweather beat them, fact is they both won, Mayweather beat De La Hoya when De La Hoya was at his best given his age while Pacquiao beat him when De La Hoya was drained and as someone in this thread stated "looked like a ghost." Mayweather knocked Hatton out in the 10th and Pac knocked Hatton out in the 2nd, who cares that Pacquiao KO'd him earlier how does it prove anything? It's not like Hatton was dominating Mayweather and then Mayweather caught him, Mayweather controlled the whole fight and finished it late.

Honestly I don't really care about the ducking thing, it could be Mayweather has info from a reliable source that Pac has used and that's why he wants testing, or it could be he knew Pacquiao would say no to same day testing. The question I have about that is how would Mayweather know that Pacquiao would be so against it? But it is feasible, using examples from other sports if a QB has gone 150 straight passes without throwing a pick and he has a choice for a safe 5 yard dump off or a 35 yard bomb where he has to make a perfect throw that would result in a TD but if it's not perfect it'll get picked he might just go for that 5 yard dump off to keep the streak going, or if a basketball player is 12-12 from the field and there's 2 seconds left in the 3rd quarter and he has the ball at HC he might take an extra dribble so his low percentage shot comes after the buzzer and won't count on his stats when he misses. With that said it's definitely possible once Mayweather's record got to a certain point he just decided he's going to play it safe and try to retire with an undefeated record.

The thing that bothers me is how everyone amps up what Pacquiao has done while tearing down with Mayweather has done. The De La Hoya fights are a big example, Mayweather gets no credit for fighting at a weight class he has never fought at, while nobody takes into account that De La Hoya had to kill himself to make weight for his fight with Pacquiao.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:41 PM   #2145
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

As I feared, Mayweather now wants more than a 50-50 split. I actually think they will reach a compromise on the whole blood testing stuff, but this fight will never happen unless it's a 50-50 split.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=28096
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:12 PM   #2146
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I don't see why Mayweather doesn't deserve the bigger portion, he's proven to be a bigger draw than Pacquiao, and he'll go into this fight as the favorite I presume. Also when Mayweather fought De La Hoya, Mayweather got 25 mil while after his PPV cut De La Hoya got 58 mil, now if there can be that big of a discrepancy for a fight where the fighter who was a 2:1 favorite gets that much less than his opponent then there is no reason to think Mayweather is being ridiculous if he wants 60% of the purse.

This is the same reason Jones/Hopkins II never happened until nobody cared, Jones wanted 60/40, Hopkins wanted 50/50 despite the fact that Jones was the bigger draw and Jones had beaten Hopkins. Either way Pac will get a ton of money for this fight, if he demands 50/50 his ego is getting the best of him.
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:55 PM   #2147
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Historically Mayweather has more PPV numbers, but as of right now, I think they both have about the same drawing power (slight edge to Mayweather). Pac did 1.25 buys vs. Cotto and 700K vs Clottey by himself. Keep in mind Clottey has no fan base at all, no 24/7, and only 2 months to promote. He also drew 50K to Cowboy Stadium. They are both huge PPV draws and indisputably the top 2 boxers in the world. It should be 50/50.

You say Pac's going to make a ton of money either way, which is true, but Mayweather isn't going to make more money fighting somebody else for 60/40 than he will facing Pac at 50/50.

Mayweather agreed to 14 day cutoff and 50/50 split in January. Pac has finally agreed to the 14 day cut off, and Mayweather is now (not surprisingly) making more demands. Bottom line is Mayweather is putting to many roadblocks which could potentially cause this fight from not happening.

Mosely bent over for Mayweather because Shane was at the end of his career and wanted the payday, but Mayweather won't be able to do that with Pac.

Last edited by trippy; 05-26-2010 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:03 PM   #2148
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Mayweather Hatton was over 1.5 million PPV
Pacquiao Hatton was 825,000

Mayweather De La Hoya was 2.4 million PPV
Pacquiao De La Hoya was 1.25 million

Mayweather Marquez was 1 million PPV
Pacquiao Marquez was 400,000

Mayweather's last fight 1.4 million
Pacquiao's last fight 700,000

Demanding more than 50/50 doesn't seem too unreasonable.
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:13 PM   #2149
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

All about timing. Mayweather fought them at the right time.

When Pacquiao fought Marquez, he wasn't nearly as big of a draw as he is today.
When Mayweather fought De La Hoya, Oscar was the biggest draw in boxing. When Pac fought De La Hoya, Oscar looked sluggish in his match vs. Forbes the fight before and Pac still wasn't as popular as he is now. It was after the Oscar fight when Pac really started to become a big PPV draw by himself.

Also, your numbers are wrong. Mayweather/Hatton did not get 1.5 million views. It got about 900K IIRC. Pac/De La Hoya did not get 1.25 it got less than 1 million. It was against Cotto that he got 1.25 million buys.

And it's unfair to compare Mayweather last fight vs. Pac's last fight considering the opponents they faced.
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:19 PM   #2150
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

It just seems Pacquiao needs this fight way more than Mayweather does in terms of PPV #s. It appears Mayweather can do 1M+ against any reasonable opponent, and it doesn't look like thats the case for Pacquiao.

The numbers were just what I was able to find with a quick search, so not sure about any inaccuracies.
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