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Old 05-06-2010, 02:10 PM   #1951
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

You already mentioned why people don't give a lot of credit to Floyd for beating Zab Judah. He fought him after he already lost to Baldomir. If Floyd beat him when is was still undefeated, he'd get a lot more credit.

Marquez had no chance of beating Mayweather. He had no advantage whatsoever (speed, quickness, power, skill, etc.) over Mayweather. Also, he doesn't fight in a style that is conducive to beating Floyd. Marquez is a counter-puncher. In order to beat Floyd, you have to put constant pressure on him and not let him dictate the fight. Marquez doesn't do that. Furthermore, Marquez has only fought above 130 lbs. once before going up to welterweight. He was also 36 years old at the time of the fight.

Pac has improved a lot since his last fight with Marquez, and if they were to fight again now, I believe Pac would knock him out within 6 rounds.

Also, the fight with Oscar and Clottey had a weight limit of 147. The catch weight for the Cotto fight was 145, but I don't think Cotto had any trouble making that weight since in his fight with Clottey he weighed in at 146.
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:39 PM   #1952
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Clearly there is no way for Manny to win. Mayweather is too good.

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Good reading comprehension bro.
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:43 PM   #1953
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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I do think it's possible that Pacquiao is active enough to force a close decision though.
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:11 PM   #1954
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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The Judah fight was definitely a good win for Mayweather. But he hasn't had that kind of fight in years, so that was why I thought we don't really know how he'd respond today in that kind of fight.



Manny fought JMM at JMM's best weight. And he won both fights in reality. The split decision was close, but a win for Manny. And the "draw" was not really a draw. It's widely known that a judge accidentally did not score a knockdown for Pacquiao, leading to a tie scorecard when there should have been a Pacquiao win by a point. Pac won two close fights against JMM at his best weight, and knocked him down 4 times over those two fights without ever being knocked down himself.

The two Manny/JMM fights were at JMM's dominant weights of 126 and 130. Floyd fought him at 144, and JMM had only had one fight above 130 in his life (at 135).



First of all, you're wrong. Cotto has never fought above 147.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...3535&cat=boxer

Secondly, Manny is continually moving up in weight over the last couple of years. Manny was dominant at 126 and 130 (as well as several weight classes below that). He moved up to fight Diaz at 135. Then he moved up again to fight ODLH at 147. Nobody 'forced' ODLH to take that fight. Manny was jumping 12 pounds higher than he'd ever fought before, and 17 pounds higher than his dominant weight (he only had one 135 fight). Essentially he was jumping 17 pounds up in weight. The weight class was thought to be a huge advantage for ODLH going into that fight. Manny deserves credit for jumping that high, not blame that ODLH couldn't cut weight properly. Then after the ODLH fight, he took on Hatton at 140, and Cotto and Clottey at 147.

Manny continually moves up, whereas in the last couple of years, Floyd has moved down and looks for smaller, weaker, or older fighters to prey on. In 2007, he took on ODLH at 154. After winning the 154 title, he chose to not face any of the best at 154 and instead fought 140 champ Hatton at 147, where Hatton had never fought before. He then had the ridiculous fight against JMM, where Marquez essentially jumped 14 pounds above his normal weight class. Mayweather didn't give a **** about making weight for that fight either, basically paying Marquez off so he could miss.

I think the whole "Manny moves up while Floyd moves down" is why people are giving Manny more credit for recent fights than Floyd.
You whole post makes it seem like Mayweather has fought at 147 his whole career, he began fighting at the same weight class Pacquiao did, he just moved up in weight quicker. Pac was 16 when he was fighting at 106 so was Mayweather only difference was Mayweather was still an amateur while Manny had already turned pro. Naturally Mayweather isn't much bigger than Manny.

People just dislike Mayweather so they look for every reason to discredit him while Pacquiao is very likeable so people overrate his unaccomplishments and look the other way on certain things like Oscar and Cotto fighting below there normal weight in order to fight Pacquiao and both "surprisingly" looked sluggish. Instead of pointing to the additional weight cut everybody just says "Manny was too fast for them." Why is it a big deal when guys step up a weight class to fight Mayweather but it's non issue when guys cut extra weight to fight Manny? It's much easier to weigh more for a fight then it is to cut extra weight, the reason is when guys move up in a weight class odds are they just cut less weight during training. It's not like these guys are putting on 7+ extra pounds, they are just losing 7 pounds less for the fight. It's just as much a disadvantage to lose 2 extra pounds then your used to when you are already dehydrating yourself to get down to 147. Granted Marquez may have had to actually put on weight but it was probably very little.

Also way too big of a deal is made for the extra weight Mayweater came into the fight as. There are 30-40 pound weight gaps in the HW division, and you're telling me 2 pounds makes all the difference? Maybe Mayweather thought he could make that weight and during training realized he would've had to nearly kill himself to lose those extra pounds and knew he would be too dehydrated and would've had no energy during the fight and would've put himself in a position to take a loss.

My bad about Cotto, he's just now about to fight his first fight at 154, I got mixed up.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:34 PM   #1955
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

It looks like Mayweather almost fights with his back to his opponent. When you're fighting someone who is constantly turning his back to you are you given some leeway by the referee if your punches stray to his back? They had a Ray Mancini fight on ESPN-Classic last night (I think his 18th pro fight - first one to air on ESPN) and I noticed Mancini landed a lot of body shots on his opponent's left side below the elbow and which strayed around to the back to the point of looking to me like kidney punches. Ray was never warned about it. The way Mayweather fights it looks like somebody stepping to the right could land in that area of Mayweather's body all night long. Could they get away with it?


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Old 05-07-2010, 12:41 AM   #1956
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

PTB,

A TON depends on who you have as referee. Some would be much more lax, and some would be much more strict. Same thing with a ref that allows a lot of infighting as opposed to a ref who will break the fighters at the smallest sign of a clinch.
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:18 AM   #1957
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

It took almost 2,000 posts, but we have our first Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini reference itt, SHIP IT IMFO
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Old 05-08-2010, 02:31 PM   #1958
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Williams vs. Cintron tonight. Thank you HBO!
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Old 05-08-2010, 04:10 PM   #1959
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Williams vs. Cintron tonight. Thank you HBO!
=) Can't wait for Katsidis vs. Mitchell next week it has fight of the year written all over it. Katsidis

Also I played craps with Gary Shaw last weekend very nice guy. Much different then he acts on T.V., and he won me 13k one roll =)
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Old 05-08-2010, 04:57 PM   #1960
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Also I played craps with Gary Shaw last weekend very nice guy. Much different then he acts on T.V., and he won me 13k one roll =)
Sweet!
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Old 05-08-2010, 05:19 PM   #1961
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Gary Shaw comes off like the sleaziest guy ever on TV. Anybody remember the EliteXC card where he basically sexually harassed Gina Carano in front of everyone?
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Old 05-08-2010, 06:25 PM   #1962
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

seeing as this thread is not exclusively for the PBF v PAC fight (if it ever happens) id just like to congratulate local young Belfast boxer Ryan Burnett in winning the silver at the world youth championships, apparently he should have got the gold but he was fighting a homebased fighter in the final and the judges favoured him (heavily ive been told by his aunt).

this kid has qualified for the olympics and will have a great chance in London 2012.
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Old 05-08-2010, 07:20 PM   #1963
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Gary Shaw comes off like the sleaziest guy ever on TV. Anybody remember the EliteXC card where he basically sexually harassed Gina Carano in front of everyone?
Was it this?

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Old 05-08-2010, 08:54 PM   #1964
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I never knew Shaw's son was one of the top dogs at EliteXC. Watching interviews of him seems like a slick SOB, but he has no clue when it comes to MMA. He was playing with me also, and I just recognized him as the guy that is always going crazy around Tim Bradley.
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:00 PM   #1965
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Williams vs. Cintron tonight. Thank you HBO!
Starting in a few minutes. Who does everyone have in this?
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:18 PM   #1966
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

WOW!
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:18 PM   #1967
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

what the heck was that?
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:19 PM   #1968
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

my feed's in spanish (and a little garbled), what are they saying?
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:21 PM   #1969
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

sounds like a no contest.
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:22 PM   #1970
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

saying they gonna score the fight
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:23 PM   #1971
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Yeah it's over. Ref gave the signal that there is a fighter that cant continue. 3 rounds have been completed. In california you go to the scorecards.
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:23 PM   #1972
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

hurry up with the replay.
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:23 PM   #1973
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Thats the most bizarre thing i have ever seen.

Apparently gonna score it too. (had cintron 3-0)
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:24 PM   #1974
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

WTF? is cintron really that hurt. blehhh. fight was just picking up too.
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:24 PM   #1975
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Lampley stfu
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