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Old 05-05-2010, 01:40 PM   #1926
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

@ jimmy mc larnin.

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get those nicknames.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:48 PM   #1927
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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@ jimmy mc larnin.

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Hebrew Scourge
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get those nicknames.
LMAO
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:53 PM   #1928
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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i agree with this.. in all honesty i dont think this is gonna be an amazing fight just because its gonna turn out pacquiao trying to hit floyd and pbf trying to counter... would rather see pacquiao/mosley or pacquiao/foreman.. but ive been waiting to see this for a loooong time
So wrong. No matter what happens, it'll live up to the hype imo.

If it happens...

These guys will be in top condition on fight night physically...And mentally, they're both as strong as anyone in sports. The speed/reflexes/ring generalship you will witness by 2 men at the same time will be jaw dropping even if the action isn't fast and furious (which I expect it to be in spurts).


Also, IMO it's in the best interests of both fighters to put on an entertaining fight for rematch value. Although you guys like to theorize about other potential fights for them, it's 50+ million vs each other or they're lucky to make 15 million vs anyone else atm.

Last edited by $kill Game; 05-05-2010 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:03 PM   #1929
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

P4P lists over a 100 years are pretty dumb. I don't think you can compare Pac Man to someone who fought 80 years ago. All time lists work fine in MMA when people have comparable physical attributes, and training. I think we can only compare people in boxing that fought within the last 25-30 years to each other.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:50 PM   #1930
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)


sry if repost
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:30 PM   #1931
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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sry if repost
That's awesome, now someone photoshop Manny in continuing to throw after that single left.
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:31 PM   #1932
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by martymc1 View Post
@ jimmy mc larnin.

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Real name James McLarnin
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Beltin' Celt
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Murderous Mick
The Belfast Spider
The Jew Killer
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Hebrew Scourge
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get those nicknames.
Jesus Christ
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:43 PM   #1933
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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That's awesome, now someone photoshop Manny in continuing to throw after that single left.
Kinda like this?









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Old 05-05-2010, 08:13 PM   #1934
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Yep exactly, like that. See Floyd's really good at defense, and Manny is some offensive cyborg. Should be fun.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:38 PM   #1935
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

k, take those first 5 gifs, and multiply them so they total 36 minutes. That's Pacquiao. He will win some rounds based on sheer volume alone, nevermind when he actually catches Mayweather, which he probably will.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:53 PM   #1936
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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k, take those first 5 gifs, and multiply them so they total 36 minutes. That's Pacquiao. He will win some rounds based on sheer volume alone, nevermind when he actually catches Mayweather, which he probably will.
In your opinion, how many punches would Pacquiao throw vs Mayweather?
Total amount for 12 rounds.

Would it be lower than vs Cotto, Clottey and De la Hoya? (avg per round)
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:48 PM   #1937
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I'd be shocked if the punch total was higher than - or even close to - the Clottey fight. 1200+ punches is ridiculous, even for Pacquiao, but it was only possible because Clottey never fought back. He was a punching bag, hiding behind his guard all night. Mayweather will clearly have to throw at some point in order to win the fight, whereas Clottey's only concern was to live long enough to see the biggest payday of his career.

The important thing about that fight is it provided more empirical evidence on Pacquiao's stamina; it's unparalleled. He still had to throw those punches, regardless of whether or not the fight was competitive. Clearly, he has the potential to throw at high volume and not gas himself, so that won't be a limiting factor when trying to give Floyd his first loss.

In his four fights at or over 140 lbs. (DLH, Hatton, Cotto and Clottey), Pacquiao has thrown 2,723 punches in 34 total rounds; he landed 879 of those punches. That's good for a 32% connection rate, which is just about average for the welterweight division. However, it should be noted that the Clottey fight really skews these stats. Clottey rarely came out of his guard and Pacquiao was only able to land 246 shots (20%).

So let's look at his stats before the Clottey fight; 22 rounds, 1492 punches thrown, 633 landed, for a connection rate just under 43%. That's an average of 68 punches per round, 29 landed per round. According to CompuBox, that's 53% above the weight division average of 19/58/33%. That's pretty sick.

I really don't know how Pacquiao will respond to Mayweather's counterpunching threat. He'll either be afraid of getting popped and therefore limit his punch output to avoid getting exposed...or he'll come in with the mindset that "I'm too fast and he can't hurt me" and he'll throw like a madman.

I think he finds a happy medium. Pacquiao was a straight-up brawler in his early career and his only gameplan was commit to volume. As he's moved up and fought men much stronger than him, the chance of getting seriously hurt out of nowhere increased exponentially. With that added threat, Pacquiao's gameplan has evolved. He became craftier, throwing at more confusing angles and showing far more discipline in punch and combo selection, but still retained the same speed and power. I'd call this "smart volume." He'll be very close to that ~70 punch per round average again.

He doesn't need to change anything, he just has to do what he does best. He's fast and powerful and Mayweather's never seen anyone as good as him, just like Pac's never had to hit something as elusive as PBF. Just commit to what brought you to this point, what's made you the best P4P boxer of the last decade, and hope for the best.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:59 PM   #1938
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Geddy should be hired to hype the fight imo.
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:34 PM   #1939
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

#1937 > #1

Well, not quite but damn close.
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:49 PM   #1940
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Yeah, I could probably jerk it to those Geddy Lee posts.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:11 AM   #1941
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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P4P lists over a 100 years are pretty dumb. I don't think you can compare Pac Man to someone who fought 80 years ago. All time lists work fine in MMA when people have comparable physical attributes, and training. I think we can only compare people in boxing that fought within the last 25-30 years to each other.
If we want to make argument, then let's not call Mayweather top 5 GOAT, which stands for "of all time". Let's call him the best fighter of this generation or something like that. But there's no way he is even in the same league as Henry Armstrong and his ilk. When there was only one champion (imagine that) for each weight class, and only 8 weight classes, Armstrong held 3 titles simultaneously. As in, was the active champion of those divisions. Some of the p4p accomplishments of these guys will shock you.

If you enjoy wiki-browsing, go to town on these guys. I love reading old boxing history.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:26 AM   #1942
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Geddy's said it twice (if not more) but the most intriguing part of this fight, to me, is that Pac is actually going to make PBF worry about points. Pac isn't just going to stop throwing and turtle, he's going to keep coming. Floyd will move and dodge and counter, but with all that throwing, he's probably going to have to take the fight to Pac to stay even or ahead on points. Those will be the best moments in the fight imo.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:29 AM   #1943
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Another fun resume for a true all-time great

Willie Pep started his career in 1940, and went 52-0 until late 1942, when he got his first title shot. He won it, and then ran his record to 61-0 before losing in 1943.

After losing, he was 61-1. He then won 73 fights in a row, losing again in late 1948. At that point he was 134-1-1 over 8 years. And while not every fighter he fought was championship caliber, he fought a lot of really good fighters.

After losing his second fight to Sandy Saddler and dropping to 134-2-1, he won two fights, won his title back from Saddler, and went on an 18 fight winning streak that lasted until 1950. In late 1950, he was again defeated by Saddler. At that point, he had been boxing for a decade and his record was 152-3-1. He would never get his title back, but he would still go 77-7 in the twilight of his career, with a lot of good wins.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:31 AM   #1944
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Geddy's said it twice (if not more) but the most intriguing part of this fight, to me, is that Pac is actually going to make PBF worry about points. Pac isn't just going to stop throwing and turtle, he's going to keep coming. Floyd will move and dodge and counter, but with all that throwing, he's probably going to have to take the fight to Pac to stay even or ahead on points. Those will be the best moments in the fight imo.
Bingo.

This is why the dude who said he couldn't see Pacquiao winning aside from a lucky KO was just out to lunch.

Pacquiao is much more likely to win a decision in this fight than knock Mayweather out.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:39 AM   #1945
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Geddy's said it twice (if not more) but the most intriguing part of this fight, to me, is that Pac is actually going to make PBF worry about points. Pac isn't just going to stop throwing and turtle, he's going to keep coming. Floyd will move and dodge and counter, but with all that throwing, he's probably going to have to take the fight to Pac to stay even or ahead on points. Those will be the best moments in the fight imo.
There are basically three ways this fight could go.

#1 - Pacquiao totally imposes his will. He hurts Floyd early and/or Floyd is simply not able to keep up with the barrage, volume, and power that Pac has. Pac either wins by KO or wins a very clear cut decision.

#2 - Floyd totally imposes his will. Floyd gets Manny's rhythm very early in the fight and effectively counters him early and often. His defense holds up easily, Pacquiao gets tagged a lot and slows down, and Floyd coasts to an easy decision.

#3 - Neither fighter can totally impose their will. Pacquiao comes out firing, and Floyd aims to defend and counter-attack. Manny throws a lot and misses a lot, but manages to get past Floyd's shell a few times and connect solidly early. Floyd is also able to counter effectively, but not enough to slow Manny down. Manny keeps up the volume, and hits Floyd some more. But Floyd isn't getting overwhelmed, and he keeps his composure and is still tagging Manny off counters. The early rounds are a struggle between two fighters both trying to impose their will.

I think #3 is far more likely than either #1 or #2. And if #3 happens, it'll be very interesting to see what Floyd does. Manny will be firing the entire fight if it's competitive, but Floyd hasn't really been in a dogfight in a long time. Will he continue his defense/counter strategy no matter what? Will he attack more if he senses he might be losing rounds? He's coasted to so many easy decisions recently that it's hard to know how he'll respond. We don't even really know what an offensive Mayweather looks like really. We got a very small glimpse against Mosley, but it would have to be waaaaay more pronounced in a Manny/Floyd matchup.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:57 AM   #1946
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

lol my grandfather was just talking to me the other day about Pep and Saddler. He said they were two of the dirtiest fighters of all time but both legends.

He's got some sick stories from his career. He was a provincial amateur champ in Ontario at light heavyweight in the 50's and also won a Michigan Golden Gloves regional championship in 1956. Just missed out on nationals at the final qualifier in Wisconsin.

One of my favourites is when he left Sudbury for the aforementioned Golden Gloves tournament in Escanaba, Michigan with his trainer and cutman. They took the sponsor's van. Only problem is, the sponsor was the local chapter of the miner's union...this being the middle of the McCarthy purges, all socialist unions were identified as potential members of the Soviet Communist spy ring by the American government. Having been held for questioning and then turned away at the border, my grandfather's trainer flagged down a station wagon a few hundred yards from the border, paid the man to stuff my grandfather in the back and smuggled him into the United States.

After that kind of effort, I guess you kinda have no choice but to win, eh?
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:36 AM   #1947
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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#1 - Pacquiao totally imposes his will. He hurts Floyd early and/or Floyd is simply not able to keep up with the barrage, volume, and power that Pac has. Pac either wins by KO or wins a very clear cut decision.
I don't see this AT ALL. A lot of people seem to think Manny will win in a similar fashion to his last 5 fights...However, Floyd's reflexes, speed, PUNCH ACCURACY, and adaptability will not let that happen in my opinion.

I know Pacquiao has improved a lot in the last few years, but someone who fights a counter punching game (which floyd has the ability to do), is the perfect antidote for him. As shown in the Marquez fights, when you're effectively countering Manny, you throw him off his rhythm. And if you look at Manny's last 5 fights, his unabated rhythm led to the domination. Floyd is too talented to let Manny get in a rhythm.


I do think it's possible that Pacquiao is active enough to force a close decision though.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:42 AM   #1948
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Clearly there is no way for Manny to win. Mayweather is too good.

/S_ammer Game analysis
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:33 PM   #1949
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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There are basically three ways this fight could go.

#1 - Pacquiao totally imposes his will. He hurts Floyd early and/or Floyd is simply not able to keep up with the barrage, volume, and power that Pac has. Pac either wins by KO or wins a very clear cut decision.

#2 - Floyd totally imposes his will. Floyd gets Manny's rhythm very early in the fight and effectively counters him early and often. His defense holds up easily, Pacquiao gets tagged a lot and slows down, and Floyd coasts to an easy decision.

#3 - Neither fighter can totally impose their will. Pacquiao comes out firing, and Floyd aims to defend and counter-attack. Manny throws a lot and misses a lot, but manages to get past Floyd's shell a few times and connect solidly early. Floyd is also able to counter effectively, but not enough to slow Manny down. Manny keeps up the volume, and hits Floyd some more. But Floyd isn't getting overwhelmed, and he keeps his composure and is still tagging Manny off counters. The early rounds are a struggle between two fighters both trying to impose their will.

I think #3 is far more likely than either #1 or #2. And if #3 happens, it'll be very interesting to see what Floyd does. Manny will be firing the entire fight if it's competitive, but Floyd hasn't really been in a dogfight in a long time. Will he continue his defense/counter strategy no matter what? Will he attack more if he senses he might be losing rounds? He's coasted to so many easy decisions recently that it's hard to know how he'll respond. We don't even really know what an offensive Mayweather looks like really. We got a very small glimpse against Mosley, but it would have to be waaaaay more pronounced in a Manny/Floyd matchup.
I hope #3 happens. But also remember that's how the Zab Judah fight went for 6 rounds then Mayweather got his timing down and totally dismantled Judah for the rest of the fight. Peole tend to not give Mayweather any credit for this fight but remember Judah was 34-3 coming into this fight however had just been dominated by Baldomir in what was considered a HUGE upset and Judah was top 10 p4p before the Baldomir fight. So he was 1 fight and 3 months off of being one of the 10 best p4p and a top 3 WW.

Another thing I'm confused about when it comes to Mayweather and Pacquiao is why Mayweather gets discredited for fight Marquez above his weight class when Marquez had a draw with Pacquiao and lost a controversial split decision. Many will say Marquez won both fights and Mayweather dismantled Marquez and he's the same size as Pacquiao. However nobody says anything about the fact that in all of his WW fights Pacquiao has forced his opponents to fight at a lower weight then they are used to. De La Hoya and Cotto who have both fought at 154, De La Hoya has even fought at 160 were forced into fighting at 145 and who knows how much the extra weight cut took out of the those fighters. 2 extra pounds may not sound like a lot but when it already takes a ton of effort to get to 147, losing another 2 pounds could really dehydrate you and make you sluggish during a fight.
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:57 PM   #1950
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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I hope #3 happens. But also remember that's how the Zab Judah fight went for 6 rounds then Mayweather got his timing down and totally dismantled Judah for the rest of the fight. Peole tend to not give Mayweather any credit for this fight but remember Judah was 34-3 coming into this fight however had just been dominated by Baldomir in what was considered a HUGE upset and Judah was top 10 p4p before the Baldomir fight. So he was 1 fight and 3 months off of being one of the 10 best p4p and a top 3 WW.
The Judah fight was definitely a good win for Mayweather. But he hasn't had that kind of fight in years, so that was why I thought we don't really know how he'd respond today in that kind of fight.

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Another thing I'm confused about when it comes to Mayweather and Pacquiao is why Mayweather gets discredited for fight Marquez above his weight class when Marquez had a draw with Pacquiao and lost a controversial split decision. Many will say Marquez won both fights and Mayweather dismantled Marquez and he's the same size as Pacquiao.
Manny fought JMM at JMM's best weight. And he won both fights in reality. The split decision was close, but a win for Manny. And the "draw" was not really a draw. It's widely known that a judge accidentally did not score a knockdown for Pacquiao, leading to a tie scorecard when there should have been a Pacquiao win by a point. Pac won two close fights against JMM at his best weight, and knocked him down 4 times over those two fights without ever being knocked down himself.

The two Manny/JMM fights were at JMM's dominant weights of 126 and 130. Floyd fought him at 144, and JMM had only had one fight above 130 in his life (at 135).

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However nobody says anything about the fact that in all of his WW fights Pacquiao has forced his opponents to fight at a lower weight then they are used to. De La Hoya and Cotto who have both fought at 154, De La Hoya has even fought at 160 were forced into fighting at 145 and who knows how much the extra weight cut took out of the those fighters. 2 extra pounds may not sound like a lot but when it already takes a ton of effort to get to 147, losing another 2 pounds could really dehydrate you and make you sluggish during a fight.
First of all, you're wrong. Cotto has never fought above 147.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...3535&cat=boxer

Secondly, Manny is continually moving up in weight over the last couple of years. Manny was dominant at 126 and 130 (as well as several weight classes below that). He moved up to fight Diaz at 135. Then he moved up again to fight ODLH at 147. Nobody 'forced' ODLH to take that fight. Manny was jumping 12 pounds higher than he'd ever fought before, and 17 pounds higher than his dominant weight (he only had one 135 fight). Essentially he was jumping 17 pounds up in weight. The weight class was thought to be a huge advantage for ODLH going into that fight. Manny deserves credit for jumping that high, not blame that ODLH couldn't cut weight properly. Then after the ODLH fight, he took on Hatton at 140, and Cotto and Clottey at 147.

Manny continually moves up, whereas in the last couple of years, Floyd has moved down and looks for smaller, weaker, or older fighters to prey on. In 2007, he took on ODLH at 154. After winning the 154 title, he chose to not face any of the best at 154 and instead fought 140 champ Hatton at 147, where Hatton had never fought before. He then had the ridiculous fight against JMM, where Marquez essentially jumped 14 pounds above his normal weight class. Mayweather didn't give a **** about making weight for that fight either, basically paying Marquez off so he could miss.

I think the whole "Manny moves up while Floyd moves down" is why people are giving Manny more credit for recent fights than Floyd.
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